Help please... answering daughters "saved" question

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tortilla5

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My daughter told me that she and her friends had started an informal bible study at lunch on fridays. I was so pleased that she wanted to be a part of a bible study with her friends and they had all planned it on their own and put it in place.

She told me that last friday they were talking about when they were saved. Each girl had her own story. The stories are usually very dramatic, lots of crying, lots of praying and lots of support leading one onto the altar to announce that they have been saved.

My daughter 13 yrs old asked me when are we saved. I explained that Jesus died for our sins and saved us from original sin. It is also up to us to continue to live the way He wants us to live. If we fall at times then we go to confession. Also her confirmation was kind of her moment when she will announce that she agrees to the promises made on her behalf at baptism, only then she will be old enough top speak for herself.

I am not very good at explaining things and I know that many of you here are. How can I explain the difference between her friends “being saved” and what the Catholic church teaches us about being saved. Also what should she tell these girls when they ask her “Have you been saved?” The girls are very nice friends of hers but I am sure at some point they wil;l ask her.

Thank you for any (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
Baptism saves us by placing our souls in a state of grace. Mortal sin is a deliberate choice to reject our salvation. Confession is a deliberate choice to repent of mortal sin and to beg God to restore us to the state of grace (i.e. to restore our salvation that was granted to us at baptism), which He does through the priest’s absolution. Ultimately, our salvation is not assured until death, but it is guaranteed if we are baptized as long as we choose to remain in that gift of grace by avoiding mortal sin. So I would say we are “saved” when we are born again in baptism.
 
Tell her the Bible teaches salvation as a process, not a once for all moment.

When your daughter was saved initially was at her baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 tells us “Baptism now saves you.” We are cleansed of Original Sin, made partakers of the Divine Nature, a son and daughter of God, and filled with the Holy Spirit. That all happens at baptism! Not because of any works of ours, but God’s sheer grace.

But it doesnt end there. We are also called to a constant conversion. Jesus said “He who endures to the end SHALL be saved” (Mt 10:22) Clearly, there’s a future sense to salvation as well. If we continue to walk with Christ throughout our whole lives, then we SHALL be saved once we are in Heaven.

So if your daughters friends ask her if she’s been saved, you can tell her she can say yes I have been, at my baptism. But I also believe that I must “work out my salvation in fear and trembling” as the Bible says in Phillipians 2:12 and if I stay true to Jesus until the end then I shall be finally saved.

I just also want to encourage your daughter not to get too hung up on exciting emotional conversions. I don’t know if she is or not. Those are good, and we all will have moments of realizing God’s incredible gift of mercy, but that doesn’t compare to the gift she already has as a Catholic, being able to receive Jesus himself physically in the Eucharist!
Emotions will come and go, but that’s not what our faith is based on, it’s based on Christ. He’s all that matters. 👍 Just make sure she understands that and she’ll be good.

Hope that helped!
 
From the Catholic Answers tract “Assurance of Salvation?” comes this excellent quotation which I have used for years in these situations:
“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”
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-ACEGC
 
I think it’s time to get your daughter some books that explain things clearly. The shop on this site has some good apologetic books which will help her. I came to faith from a Evangelical perspective before converting to Catholicism so I know what to expect. A good percentage of these Evangelical/Fundamental Church’s are made up of ex Catholic’s.
 
Are your daughter’s friends Protestant?

I think our understanding is a bit different… in terms of when you’re “born again” this is Baptism, but Protestants typically believe it’s the moment when you “accept Christ and are saved” (the experiences your daughter’s friends talked about). Catholics believe we’re born again in Baptism. Of course, since people typically sin at some point after Baptism, there is Confession to come back. Also, there comes a point when a person might choose to make their faith more of “their own”, rather than something they grew up with, this can be at Confirmation when they decide to live out their baptismal promises with a personal intent - if they were not well catechized for their Confirmation, this might come later for them, when they maybe have an experience of Christ. Sometimes this happens at Adoration, or a retreat. This last point is what the Protestants call being “saved” or “born again”.

We all agree we need to know Christ… and that we are saved by Him… but the theology has differences - such as when this happens, and if the Sacraments are involved, etc. Also evangelical Protestants often see salvation as something instantaneous, whereas in Catholic teaching we need to persevere in grace.

I also agree that many such groups have ex-Catholics - I’m not saying with this group necessarily, but I used to be non denominational Protestant and in my Bible study we had several ex-Catholics. Often people might leave the Church before they truly learn about it.

Hope this helps 🙂 just my understanding!
 
The girls, if they are of fundamentalist background, are talking both of the emotional and spiritual sense of being ‘saved’. The closest thing that I can equate it to in terms of Catholicism, …hmmmm do you enjoy spiritual communion while saying the rosary? Now, hone this down to a simple presence of God, as if an individual entity, rather than the entire Church. There is love, there is that inner peace, etc…as if radiating all about you. This is saved and the sense they get at baptism…caution as some believe that to be truly saved, this must be accompanied by speaking in tongues. Do not go there. So essentially, they do want to know some of your daughter’s emotionality involved…in a social sense of the knowledge base rather than religion, it would be like 'how was your date? did your toes curl when he kissed you?" or the hot fudge sundae, tell us what it was realllllllllyyyyyyy like. Sharing the joys of ‘growing up’ but only spiritually. If she cares to avoid some of this, as it was her decision to get confirmed, she might tell them of her confirmation date and how that made her feel…

My dad was an apostolic/pentecostal minister when I was born. I was not baptised by my bio dad, but in the Catholic Church. I am Catholic. We may be saved at baptism but it is a growing process. My dad often tried to point this out to overzealous new converts by asking them too difficult of questions or using bible to talk circles around them in logic or taking an opposite stance…merely to make the point that they had to grow and learn themselves before they were ready to teach and convert others.

Let’s not make it any more difficult for them than it has to be, they’re trying to share joy and the love of God!
 
Thank you all for your responses. I am not very good at clearly explaining things and this will help me explain things more clearly to her.
 
tortilla5 said:
My daughter told me that she and her friends had started an informal bible study at lunch on fridays. I was so pleased that she wanted to be a part of a bible study with her friends and they had all planned it on their own and put it in place.

She told me that last friday they were talking about when they were saved. Each girl had her own story. The stories are usually very dramatic, lots of crying, lots of praying and lots of support leading one onto the altar to announce that they have been saved.

My daughter 13 yrs old asked me when are we saved. I explained that Jesus died for our sins and saved us from original sin. It is also up to us to continue to live the way He wants us to live. If we fall at times then we go to confession. Also her confirmation was kind of her moment when she will announce that she agrees to the promises made on her behalf at baptism, only then she will be old enough top speak for herself.

I am not very good at explaining things and I know that many of you here are. How can I explain the difference between her friends “being saved” and what the Catholic church teaches us about being saved. Also what should she tell these girls when they ask her “Have you been saved?” The girls are very nice friends of hers but I am sure at some point they wil;l ask her.

Thank you for any (name removed by moderator)ut.
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Confirmation is not a “confirming” of our baptismal promises.

The sacrament of confirmation has little to do with baptism. Our baptism is effective and the promises stand from the moment it happens, no matter how old we are. We renew our promises every year at the easter vigil and can do so at any time. We renew our promises in a small way every time we dip our hand in holy water and sign ourselves, and every time we hear the words, “Body of Christ”, reply “Amen” and recieve the Eucharist.

The sacrament of confirmation is not a public agreement to proxy promises made when we were too younge to promise for ourselves. Waiting for confirmation is a relatively new phenomena in the Church. For most of Church history infants were confirmed right after they were baptized. Many of the eastern Churches confirm infants at the time they are baptized.

Confirmation is our personal participation in Pentacost, when the Holy Spirit gives us power to speak out boldly, without fear of even dying. The word “Witness” comes from the greek root which means martyr. To be a witness means to become a martyr. That is what confirmation is. It gives us the power to be a “Witness” without fear, like St. Stephen did in the book of Acts.

One of the beauties of Catholicism is that it is entirely biblical. Evangelicals and Bible Christians are usually awed when Catholicism is explained properly in relation to the Bible.

-Tim-
 
The sacrament of confirmation has little to do with baptism. Our baptism is effective and the promises stand from the moment it happens, no matter how old we are. We renew our promises every year at the Easter vigil and can do so at any time. We renew our promises in a small way every time we dip our hand in holy water and sign ourselves, and every time we hear the words, “Body of Christ”, reply “Amen” and receive the Eucharist.
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“From this fact, Confirmation brings an increase and deepening of baptismal grace” (CCC 1303)

“Like Baptism which it completes, Confirmation is given only once, for it too imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual mark, the “character,” which is the sign that Jesus Christ has marked a Christian with the seal of his Spirit by clothing him with power from on high so that he may be his witness.” (CCC 1304)
 
Tim. Please reread what you have read. How is that confirmation not intertwined with the spirit of baptism? Sharing of God’s love. Being with the Church.
 
tortilla5 said:
I am not very good at explaining things and I know that many of you here are. How can I explain the difference between her friends “being saved” and what the Catholic church teaches us about being saved. Also what should she tell these girls when they ask her “Have you been saved?” The girls are very nice friends of hers but I am sure at some point they wil;l ask her.

Thank you for any (name removed by moderator)ut.
Click to expand...
We have been saved (Baptism,) we are being saved(Confession, Communion, faith, hope love), and we hope - at the end of our lives - to be saved and judged worthy of Heaven. Salvation during our earthly life is an ongoing process, not a one time event.
We must persevere in faith, hope and love of God and neighbor; and repentance and confession when we sin.
 
We are saved when we step into heaven, and baptism is the first step making that possible, uniting us to God’s people, the church.

Just a quick thought.​

“We are the church, the body of Christ. We are the church, a people redeemed.” (hymn)
 
For Evangelicals, being saved is the equivalent of baptism. It’s a one-time thing, supposedly. The doctrine of OSAS says it is. Then there is “backsliding”. Then there are people who appear to be saved, but aren’t. Catholics don’t have this mess of uncertainty and contradiction.

For Catholics, the sacraments are all moments of salvation for us. They all impart inner divine grace with an outward sign of faith. Your daughter can testify to her salvation at her Baptism, at her Confirmation, and at every time she celebrates Penance and the Eucharist. These are all moments when we experience Christ’s saving grace in our lives. For us, baptism is a one-time occurrence. We can be certain of its validity and efficacy, unlike Evangelicals being “saved”. But Christ in his wisdom instituted six more sacraments for us so that we would not be lost after that initial acceptance which unites us to His Kingdom. When a Catholic “backslides” we know it. Our conscience feels that fall from grace. We go to Confession and we are saved again. Then we receive Holy Communion. Did you know that the Eucharist actually preserves us from future sin? It gives us the strength to avoid temptations. Worthy, frequent reception of the Eucharist is such a great gift of the Church.

I also recommend gaining indulgences on a regular basis. Indulgences will save you from the temporal punishment due to sins already committed. Evangelical Christians have nothing like it. Protestants jettisoned this idea hundreds of years ago and they are impoverished for its loss. But any Catholic in good standing can gain indulgences for himself or souls in Purgatory, so look into it!
 
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