Help! questins about email debate

[Jennifer_J]

Could someone read through this and point to any info that looks wrong? This woman is asserting various things that seem wrong, but I can’t seem to put into words the problem. Any ideas would be helpful.

<< I made no argument for a female priesthood; please be careful not to read eisegetically: see what is actually written. Of course, I support the Catholic dogma of women as part of the common priesthood. If you have issues with women in the ministerial priesthood, refrain from imputing such matters to what I have written about the New Testament. I am not trying to start a debate as to wheter or not women should be priests. The Christian office of priest is not found in the New Testament; it is a later development. The priests of the New Testament are the Jewish priests of the Jerusalem Temple that was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. The New Testament offices of presbyteros (“elder”), episkopos (“overseer”), and diakonos (“minister”) are the chief foundations for the later office of Christian priesthood. My posts were to clarify the New Testament evidence about apostles, the Twelve, and Junia, as these pertain to discussion of female altar servers of today. As the Magisterium has declared Scripture to be “the soul of theology,” my references seem fitting.
The references in my post were either to Scripture or to scholarly books and journals. A decent university or seminary library near you should have the works I noted. You could also purchase the Anchor Bible Dictionary, New Jerome Biblical Commentary, or Father John P. Meier’s _A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, vol. 3, Companions and Competitors_ at better bookstores or online. Neither the books nor the journals cited in my post are Internet based, where anyone can be “published.”>>

 

[Joe_Gloor]

She’s being rather vague, so it’s hard to come up with any specific statement that she’s making other than that there were no Catholic priests in the Bible which is debatable.
If you consider the Apostles to be Bishops then the “seven men” chosen to administer to the Church could be considered priests.

Acts 6:3-4 Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word."

I’ve read one of the books mentioned, “The New Jerome Biblical Commentary” and in there it is mentioned that the Apostles would not have called themselves “Bishops.”
But in hind-sight (this is me now, not NJBC) we can see that their role has come to be called that - with the first of the Bishops being seen as the Pope - of course I refer to Saint Peter.
The titles of these ecclesial positions is not in the Bible, but the positions themselves are there or can be construed.
I don’t know if that’s going to help you any or not.

 

[Tom]

Jennifer J:

The Christian office of priest is not found in the New Testament; it is a later development. The priests of the New Testament are the Jewish priests of the Jerusalem Temple that was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. The New Testament offices of presbyteros (“elder”), episkopos (“overseer”), and diakonos (“minister”) are the chief foundations for the later office of Christian priesthood. My posts were to clarify the New Testament evidence about apostles, the Twelve, and Junia, as these pertain to discussion of female altar servers of today. As the Magisterium has declared Scripture to be “the soul of theology,” my references seem fitting.

drbo.org:

James 5,14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him.
14 “Let him bring in”… See here a plain warrant of scripture for the sacrament of extreme unction, that any controversy against its institution would be against the express words of the sacred text in the plainest terms.

 

[Tom]

Jennifer J:

The Christian office of priest is not found in the New Testament; it is a later development. The priests of the New Testament are the Jewish priests of the Jerusalem Temple that was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. The New Testament offices of presbyteros (“elder”), episkopos (“overseer”), and diakonos (“minister”) are the chief foundations for the later office of Christian priesthood. My posts were to clarify the New Testament evidence about apostles, the Twelve, and Junia, as these pertain to discussion of female altar servers of today. As the Magisterium has declared Scripture to be “the soul of theology,” my references seem fitting.

drbo.org:

1 Timmothy 5, 16 If any of the faithful have widows, let him minister to them, and let not the church be charged: that there may be sufficient for them that are widows indeed. 17 Let the priests that rule well, be esteemed worthy of double honour: especially they who labour in the word and doctrine: .

 

[Tom]

Jennifer J:

The Christian office of priest is not found in the New Testament; it is a later development. The priests of the New Testament are the Jewish priests of the Jerusalem Temple that was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. The New Testament offices of presbyteros (“elder”), episkopos (“overseer”), and diakonos (“minister”) are the chief foundations for the later office of Christian priesthood. My posts were to clarify the New Testament evidence about apostles, the Twelve, and Junia, as these pertain to discussion of female altar servers of today. As the Magisterium has declared Scripture to be “the soul of theology,” my references seem fitting.

drbo.org:

Titus 1,4 To Titus my beloved son, according to the common faith, grace and peace from God the Father, and from Christ Jesus our Saviour. 5 For this cause I left thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee:

 

[Tom]

Jennifer J:

The Christian office of priest is not found in the New Testament; it is a later development. The priests of the New Testament are the Jewish priests of the Jerusalem Temple that was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. The New Testament offices of presbyteros (“elder”), episkopos (“overseer”), and diakonos (“minister”) are the chief foundations for the later office of Christian priesthood. My posts were to clarify the New Testament evidence about apostles, the Twelve, and Junia, as these pertain to discussion of female altar servers of today. As the Magisterium has declared Scripture to be “the soul of theology,” my references seem fitting.

drbo.org:

James 5,14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

Need more? I have them

 

[Jennifer_J]

Thanks everyone!

Jennifer

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

I recently read that the new Christians did not use the term priests until the church was mostly Gentile. This was because to Jews, only Levites could be priests. Of course our priests are of the superior order of the priest Melchesidek (obviously spelled phonetically ). In other words, the early Christians avoided confusing the Jews. Of course the Gentiles had no tribal prohibitions for the priesthood.

 

[Lorarose]

Jesus established the ministerial priesthood during the Last Supper when He said “do this in memory of me”

Any example we see in the NT of the apostles “breaking bread” on the Lord’s day is an example of the new priesthood of the catholic church.

 

[Jennifer_J]

<<Anchor Bible Dictionary, New Jerome Biblical Commentary, or Father John P. Meier’s _A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, vol. 3, Companions and Competitors>>

What about these resources she sites? Any thoughts there (I know I have some, lol)? Or how about this group the Catholic Biblical Association of America cba.cua.edu/ ?? Are there sources that counter these ummm… seemingly dissenting views?

Also, there part of the discussion about Junia (Romans 16) being a woman and an apostle? Any thoughts there?

Thanks,
Jennifer

 

[Tom]

<<Anchor Bible Dictionary, New Jerome Biblical Commentary, or Father John P. Meier’s _A Marginal Jew: Rethinking the Historical Jesus, vol. 3, Companions and Competitors>>

What about these resources she sites? Any thoughts there (I know I have some, lol)? Or how about this group the Catholic Biblical Association of America cba.cua.edu/ ?? Are there sources that counter these ummm… seemingly dissenting views?

Also, there part of the discussion about Junia (Romans 16) being a woman and an apostle? Any thoughts there?

Thanks,
Jennifer

? What dissenting views? Scripture is the Word of God, and it’s fairly clear. Your friend can rationalize all day long, it won’t change the truth. I am sorry she doesn’t like the way Jesus established His Church.
What does the Bible say about the role of women in the Church?
1 Corinthians 14
34 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.
Ephesians 5
22 Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord:
1 Peter 3,1 In like manner also let wives be subject to their husbands: that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives. 2 Considering your chaste conversation with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel: 4 But the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God. 5 For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:

Not only does the NT establish that there was indeed a priesthood in the new Christian Church, it establishes it as a male only office. I don’t understand her objection, I mean Catholics are scorned for their love and adoration of the Blessed Virgin Mary, she gives a wonderful example to follow in the Church and quite appropriate.
She needs to follow the Church not her own opinion.

 

[Jennifer_J]

I’m with you, Tom, but she’s very high and mighty and only wants to use her “scholarly” sources. Turns out these sources aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on her “sources”. Apparently this type of research (the Jesus Seminar et al) is confusing seemingly good Catholics. Kinda scares me…Anyway, just looking for ways to counter these “Catholics” who feel the need to make Jesus something He’s not.
Jennifer

 

[Lorarose]

The Jesus Seminar is garbage, plain and simple.
It puts belief to a vote.