Help With Divine Office

[bridekirk]

After saving up I have now bought and received my new Baronius Breviary, in the assumption that the " Learning the Breviary" would be able to explain to to use it. How wrong can one be !!. It seems with all this kind of thing, there seems to be an assumption that those who buy these devotional books have an existing comprehensive understanding of how they work. Well I am a simple man with a strong desire to start praying some of the offices, and using at my own Church for Vespers, and I am lost. In fact almost in tears of frustration, jumping hither and thither translating Latin Phrases and doing word searches just to see what the words mean. I do attend a Latin Traditional Parish and am new to the Latin rite, but earnestly want to learn. I have managed to get to grips with the Missal, but this Breviary is making me miserable as I just don’t get it, and having spent £ 250.00 on it, I have NO CHOICE I HAVE to learn it. Is there anyone out there who can give me some basic guidance in plain simple basic uncomplicated 1,2 3 abc language? for example take today 19th March, I would like to know how the parts fit together. If I can get to grips with the "process " for even one day I should be able to use that as my template for the rest. I was even considering trying to find someone to teach me properly and would have been happy to pay for tuition, but here is no one out there !! So frustrating lol I have always considered myself to be reasonably intelligent but am fast turning into a gibbering wreck !

 

[UpUpAndAway]

Surely your parish priest is bound to praying the DO daily…? I had the same problem when I started praying the LOTH. Bought the breviary (53€ per volume), took one look and . So I asked my parish priest and he taught me. It’s probably the easiest way to learn the LOTH/DO: find someone who already knows how to use the breviary you own and have him or her show you.

God bless

 

[bridekirk]

Surely your parish priest is bound to praying the DO daily…? I had the same problem when I started praying the LOTH. Bought the breviary (53€ per volume), took one look and . So I asked my parish priest and he taught me. It’s probably the easiest way to learn the LOTH/DO: find someone who already knows how to use the breviary you own and have him or her show you.

God bless

Hi. Yes I suppose it would be best but he is always incredibly busy and never complains and I am reticent to ask him simply because I know how much pressure he is under and it just doesn’t seem fair to burden him further. I know he would say yes, but I would feel awful asking

 

[UpUpAndAway]

You have described my parish priest to a T, but I asked him anyway and he was **delighted **to find a lay person not at all bound to the LOTH but still wanting to pray it. He was thus happy to take the time (roughly ten minutes) to explain it to me, and was always willing to answer the questions that came up in the few weeks afterwards. I suspect you will find the same in your own parish priest. Please do not hesitate to ask. :yup:

 

[bridekirk]

You have described my parish priest to a T, but I asked him anyway and he was **delighted **to find a lay person not at all bound to the LOTH but still wanting to pray it. He was thus happy to take the time (roughly ten minutes) to explain it to me, and was always willing to answer the questions that came up in the few weeks afterwards. I suspect you will find the same in your own parish priest. Please do not hesitate to ask. :yup:

Will maybe leave it till after Easter. Been looking on net all day and there is absolutely nothing in simple English lol

 

[hazcompat]

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWGILH.HTM

divineoffice.org/

Peace

 

[ajecphotos]

This might help too:

universalis.com/

 

[porthos11]

After saving up I have now bought and received my new Baronius Breviary, in the assumption that the " Learning the Breviary" would be able to explain to to use it. How wrong can one be !!. It seems with all this kind of thing, there seems to be an assumption that those who buy these devotional books have an existing comprehensive understanding of how they work. Well I am a simple man with a strong desire to start praying some of the offices, and using at my own Church for Vespers, and I am lost. In fact almost in tears of frustration, jumping hither and thither translating Latin Phrases and doing word searches just to see what the words mean. I do attend a Latin Traditional Parish and am new to the Latin rite, but earnestly want to learn. I have managed to get to grips with the Missal, but this Breviary is making me miserable as I just don’t get it, and having spent £ 250.00 on it, I have NO CHOICE I HAVE to learn it. Is there anyone out there who can give me some basic guidance in plain simple basic uncomplicated 1,2 3 abc language? for example take today 19th March, I would like to know how the parts fit together. If I can get to grips with the "process " for even one day I should be able to use that as my template for the rest. I was even considering trying to find someone to teach me properly and would have been happy to pay for tuition, but here is no one out there !! So frustrating lol I have always considered myself to be reasonably intelligent but am fast turning into a gibbering wreck !

Oh, they’re not devotional, they’re liturgical, and as such, are supposed to be difficult

But seriously, the Divine Office before 1970 was notoriously complicated. The one you have, in fact, is already much simpler than it used to be. Other than the complexities of the calendar, you also had to deal with classes and duplexes.

And the mindset you describe: that people have a comprehensive understanding is probably correct. Prior to the Council the Divine Office had fallen into general disuse and remained only the property of clerics and religious, who do include this in their formation. Laity did not have this, which is why popular devotions displaced the Divine Office among them.

This is why, although I am attached to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, I stick with the post-Conciliar Liturgy of the Hours and am willing to tolerate the disharmony in the calendars. Because I believe that more than anything else, the greatest gift to ever come out of the Council is the revised Divine Office because in its present form, it belongs to everyone, laity included.

 

[bridekirk]

Oh, they’re not devotional, they’re liturgical, and as such, are supposed to be difficult

But seriously, the Divine Office before 1970 was notoriously complicated. The one you have, in fact, is already much simpler than it used to be. Other than the complexities of the calendar, you also had to deal with classes and duplexes.

And the mindset you describe: that people have a comprehensive understanding is probably correct. Prior to the Council the Divine Office had fallen into general disuse and remained only the property of clerics and religious, who do include this in their formation. Laity did not have this, which is why popular devotions displaced the Divine Office among them.

This is why, although I am attached to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, I stick with the post-Conciliar Liturgy of the Hours and am willing to tolerate the disharmony in the calendars. Because I believe that more than anything else, the greatest gift to ever come out of the Council is the revised Divine Office because in its present form, it belongs to everyone, laity included.

Thanks a lot for those incites, and I see what you mean !!

I am in a Parish administered by ICRSP, and everything is very new to me, but I have to admit to having falling for the beauty of what I hear at the services, ( mostly of course carried out by the clergy ) though, as I am fast discovering, its one thing looking at a beautiful painting and totally another if you try to paint the same painting yourself, as it almost always comes out a total mess lol, but they say "God loves a trier " WellI hope so !!

 

[UpUpAndAway]

I am in a Parish administered by ICRSP

Well, why didn’t ya say so? :doh2:
I have regular contact with the local ICRSP canons. They are craaaaazy busy. But they always have time for me, and I’m not even a member of their parish. I’m sure if you ask, your priest will make time to help you. Out of respect for the demands on their time I wouldn’t do it during Holy Week—heck, I give my own parish priest a wide berth between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday—but any other moment should be okay. Go for it.

 

[Dorothy]

After saving up I have now bought and received my new Baronius Breviary, in the assumption that the " Learning the Breviary" would be able to explain to to use it. How wrong can one be !!. It seems with all this kind of thing, there seems to be an assumption that those who buy these devotional books have an existing comprehensive understanding of how they work. Well I am a simple man with a strong desire to start praying some of the offices, and using at my own Church for Vespers, and I am lost. In fact almost in tears of frustration, jumping hither and thither translating Latin Phrases and doing word searches just to see what the words mean. I do attend a Latin Traditional Parish and am new to the Latin rite, but earnestly want to learn. I have managed to get to grips with the Missal, but this Breviary is making me miserable as I just don’t get it, and having spent £ 250.00 on it, I have NO CHOICE I HAVE to learn it. Is there anyone out there who can give me some basic guidance in plain simple basic uncomplicated 1,2 3 abc language? for example take today 19th March, I would like to know how the parts fit together. If I can get to grips with the "process " for even one day I should be able to use that as my template for the rest. I was even considering trying to find someone to teach me properly and would have been happy to pay for tuition, but here is no one out there !! So frustrating lol I have always considered myself to be reasonably intelligent but am fast turning into a gibbering wreck !

universalis.com/

Perhaps the above site can help you?

I have a guide that I buy each year that tells me what pages the various options are on for each day. Perhaps your priest can tell you where to get one.

I have the four-volume, but only some hymns are in Latin, not the prayers. I do the Office of Readings, Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer and Night Prayer. When I first started, many years ago, I just did Morning and Evening Prayer. It takes a while to get used to the format with the ribbons, but you can learn it. I am sure your priest will be thrilled to spend some time with you about it.

And, be at peace about minor mistakes that are made, it will get easier in time.

Once a month I say Morning Prayer with the Lay Carmelite community I am in, and it took us a while to get that going smoothly! (because we meet only once a month). It is well worth doing!

 

[bridekirk]

Well, why didn’t ya say so? :doh2:
I have regular contact with the local ICRSP canons. They are craaaaazy busy. But they always have time for me, and I’m not even a member of their parish. I’m sure if you ask, your priest will make time to help you. Out of respect for the demands on their time I wouldn’t do it during Holy Week—heck, I give my own parish priest a wide berth between Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday—but any other moment should be okay. Go for it.

I already told you my brain hurts lol !!.I have spent the whole day on this. I was determined to crack it irrespective of creeping insanity haha.

You are right though, I will press on and see how I go. I might even have a Eureka moment when it all comes together. If nothing else I am getting familiar with the sections

 

[OraLabora]

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWGILH.HTM

divineoffice.org/

Peace

universalis.com/

Perhaps the above site can help you?

None of those sites will work for him. His breviary is pre-Vaticn II. Different calendars, different classes of feast, different structure of the main hours (Lauds and Vespers)

I agree with Porthos. I use the LOTH, it’s brilliant. To add a bit more colour I use Les Heures Grégoriennes to pray the daytime hours in Latin Gregorian chant. It blends ancient tradition with the modern Divine Office. Plus the books are brilliantly laid out to avoid much of the confusion Bridekirk is experiencing.

 

[El_PAso]

Hi,

I have a little more experience having purchased this set about 6 months ago, but far from expert!

Divine Officium web site divinumofficium.com and the iPhone app BrevMeum are great as they will spell out the Office for you so you can check. The first month or so I had either one open to see if I was tracking properly.

Two more tools that helped me are a TLM Calendar and Ordo from the FSSP website here:

fraternitypublications.com

The Ordo is more about the Mass but will have a little direction. A very interesting read nonetheless.

The calendar will obviously point you to the type of day; feria, etc…

The member by the name Ora Labora, who posted above, is a wealth of knowledge!

Search for posts here and you’ll find a little help. Using my name should bring you to some beginner questions.

I contacted Baronius Press about publishing a guide similar to the LOTH but as of yet nothing offered.

One bit of advice I can offer is to pay particular attention to the “Variable Part” beginning on page 123 (Lent variable part begins on page 145) If you use the tools above and can’t find where you are double check this section for variances.

I’d be happy to try to answer any specific questions via PM if you’d like. Sometime the pesky questions gum up the works and people lose interest.

Good luck,

El paso

 

[bridekirk]

Hi,

I have a little more experience having purchased this set about 6 months ago, but far from expert!

Divine Officium web site divinumofficium.com and the iPhone app BrevMeum are great as they will spell out the Office for you so you can check. The first month or so I had either one open to see if I was tracking properly.

Two more tools that helped me are a TLM Calendar and Ordo from the FSSP website here:

fraternitypublications.com

The Ordo is more about the Mass but will have a little direction. A very interesting read nonetheless.

The calendar will obviously point you to the type of day; feria, etc…

The member by the name Ora Labora, who posted above, is a wealth of knowledge!

Search for posts here and you’ll find a little help. Using my name should bring you to some beginner questions.

I contacted Baronius Press about publishing a guide similar to the LOTH but as of yet nothing offered.

One bit of advice I can offer is to pay particular attention to the “Variable Part” beginning on page 123 (Lent variable part begins on page 145) If you use the tools above and can’t find where you are double check this section for variances.

I’d be happy to try to answer any specific questions via PM if you’d like. Sometime the pesky questions gum up the works and people lose interest.

Good luck,

El paso

That is brilliant. The divinum officium site is perfect !! As you suggest I can take me lead from there. The main problem I was having was not being able to check I was on the right page, and this has made a massive difference.

I have been able to do a little bit of navigation, buts didn’t realize how much twoing and frowing was necessary. It amazes me that the clergy can keep the flow going while moving from place to place !!!

What I might do for now is forget the ribbons and just slide slips of paper in marked 1,2,3,4 etc so I can move between.

I need to put a lot of work in as its not going to be easy I know and still have not really got a handle on things like the “Little Chapter” and the shorter prayers, and exactly where they slot in, but I feel a lot better tonight than I did at 6pm ! so thank you for that terrific site

 

[El_PAso]

Yea that helps huh!

Recently I have been attending OF Mass and the out of sync calendar was making it difficult but I am slowly migrating back to the RB from LOTH.

A realistic mindset makes it more pleasant. Trying to dive in on ones own and pray the entire RB daily is a task. I am rarely able to get Matins in. I generally miss a daytime Hour or two as well.

I pray Lauds at dawn, Prime mid morning, at least one of the day time hours when appropriate, Vespers at sunset and Compline last thing I do. I try to get Matins in on Solemnities or if I have some down time.

It was suggested to switch every week from daytime hours to Matins that way one prays most of the Psalms in a 2 week cycle instead of 1 week. Or every other day Matins-Daytimes… I never quite got on a pattern with this approach but seems reasonable.

I’m still in the conflicted stage. The RB is not the official prayer of the Church but once you get rolling you may find as I did you like the RB much better. Perhaps its the way the Baronius Press version is annotated and gives focus for each hour and day. I like the translation in the RB better as well for the most part. But I can easily pray the entire LOTH each day… and like the Office of Readings.

The Baronies Press volumes are quite wonderful books! I’m sure you’ll enjoy them!

El paso

 

[El_PAso]

I should add…

It IS possible to figure it out! I was able to get it pretty much right in a few weeks and aside from the time commitment quite doable.

I didn’t mean to paint a picture that puts it out of your or anyones grasp.

Best…

El Paso

 

[bridekirk]

I should add…

It IS possible to figure it out! I was able to get it pretty much right in a few weeks and aside from the time commitment quite doable.

I didn’t mean to paint a picture that puts it out of your or anyones grasp.

Best…

El Paso

Thanks El PAso.

I think the light is just beginning to dawn.

I set myself a few random tasks by choosing some days and then checked them out on that web site and in the main it was right. .

I am struggling to work out the “Hymns” and some of the smaller passages, since the instruction manual says they are in one place and when it comes down to it they are not. I think on more than one occasion it says something is in the Proper of The Saints and it isn’t and I just have to rummage