Help with Luke 16:19-31 and Purgatory

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“Sin unto death” is any one of the following mortal sins (plus others listed elsewhere in Scripture) that cause the spiritual death of the soul:

Matthew 19:16-19 “Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?
Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”

Jesus gives specific examples of commandments which must be obeyed if he/she desires to enter eternal life.

Revelation 22:14 “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.”

Paul gives the following examples:

Galatians 5:19-23 “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.”

If a person dies with mortal sin on his soul, then he does not inherit eternal life. His soul dies spiritually when he sins a mortal sin because the Holy Spirit moves out of this person’s soul/temple when he defiles it with mortal sin. (1 Corinthians 3:16-18) The Holy Spirit must be literally abiding in our souls at the time of our deaths in order for us to inherit eternal life because it is actually He (God) who gives our souls eternal life by inhabiting (dwelling in) them. If He is not found abiding in our souls at the time of our deaths, then we have no spiritual life in us and so we are destroyed.

1 Peter 4:17 "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

This question is answered for us in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction

Venial sins do not cause death of the soul. These are purged in Purgatory because nothing unclean can enter heaven. We must be purged of all earthly attachments before we can enter heaven.

Luke 12:47-48 “And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.”

These beatings symbolize the degrees of punishment in purgatory for venial sins. In heaven, there are no beatings and in hell we do not live with the Master; instead we are separated from Him for eternity, so this place that Jesus is describing is Purgatory.

Jesus is always waiting for us to repent of our sins and He and those in heaven rejoice (Matthew 18:12-13, Luke 15:7) when we confess and repent. After we confess and repent, then the Holy Spirit moves back into our temples/souls and abides in us once again.

Pax,
SHW
 
Okay…trying to defend Purgatory and a search of this forum turned up this text as proof of the existence of Purgatory. The dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God.

For the purposes of the story, there is compassion, or at least a flicker of consideration for others. This adds greatly to the story’s effect. Jesus is not teaching Catholic dogmatic theology, but speaking as a Jew, to Jews.​

Those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. Hence, the rich man is in purgatory.

This sounds like a great text to use, but upon further reading of the text, I’m perplexed by verse 26, which refers to the great chasm between Abraham and the rich man that was established to prevent anyone from crossing either way. Sooooo, if Lazarus is with Abraham awaiting the opening of heaven by Christ, where is the rich man? If the chasm prevents him from joining Abraham and Lazarus, how can he be in purgatory, which is a temporary state leading to heaven?

I’m sure this is not as difficult as I am making it. Please enlighten me!

Kathy

It makes far more sense if the rich man is in Hell. Which is the only interpretation familiar TM at least - how do people find purgatory in this parable :confused: ?​

 
I tend to agree with Cachonga. Augustine only reluctantly referred to this Scripture regarding Purgatory. It’s far from Scriptural “proof” for the doctrine of Purgatory.

Neither Luke 16 nor 1 Cor 3 is; or Matthew 5.26. I don’t think there is any direct textual basis for Purgatory in the Bible - but there is a cumulative argument for it that is based upon what the Bible says about God’s Holiness & man’s lack of holiness. If​

  • X is true & revealed
  • & if Y is true & revealed
  • & if both truths add up to a third truth that is not itself explicit in the Bible, that third truth is as true & revealed as those of which it is composed.
That is a theological method of argument.
 
Romans 6:23 reads, “For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” This makes no distinction between sin (cardinal/venial). Since death is contrasted with eternal life in Christ Jesus, it stands to reason that this is referring to spiritual death, which will end up in the lake of fire. While there are degrees of punishment (just as there are degrees of reward in Heaven), I don’t see how this allows for some middle ground (like purgatory). I would also ask this - if we can “pay” for our sins through our own suffering, why did Jesus have to die on the cross?
 
Jesus removed the eternal punishment (hell). Temporal punishment remains
 

It makes far more sense if the rich man is in Hell. Which is the only interpretation familiar TM at least - how do people find purgatory in this parable :confused: ?​

My Catholic Commentary says that it is hell. There is a chasm which cannot be crossed so it is hell.

Luke 16:26 “And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.”

Purgatory’s inhabitants will eventually leave Purgatory and enter heaven because there is no great gulf between them. However, those persons in hell never leave hell.

Pax,
SHW
 

Neither Luke 16 nor 1 Cor 3 is; or Matthew 5.26. I don’t think there is any direct textual basis for Purgatory in the Bible - but there is a cumulative argument for it that is based upon what the Bible says about God’s Holiness & man’s lack of holiness. If​

  • X is true & revealed
  • & if Y is true & revealed
  • & if both truths add up to a third truth that is not itself explicit in the Bible, that third truth is as true & revealed as those of which it is composed.
That is a theological method of argument.
Yes, I think it can be found in this manner. We get the doctrine of the “Trinity” explained in this way. However, I think that Luke 12:47-48 is a good example of showing the existence of Purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 “And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.”

These beatings symbolize the degrees of punishment in purgatory for venial sins. In heaven, there are no beatings and in hell we do not live with the Master; instead we are separated from Him for eternity, so this place that Jesus is describing is Purgatory.

Pax,
SHW
 
This is a great discussion on a difficult topic. After reading it, I feel like I finally understand the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The quote from St. Catherine posted by shom-bms is especially helpful. Thanks to all who have contributed.
 
This is a great discussion on a difficult topic. After reading it, I feel like I finally understand the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The quote from St. Catherine posted by shom-bms is especially helpful. Thanks to all who have contributed.
I agree with you about the quote from St. Catherine. I had read that in her book also and I am happy that it was posted here by shom-bms so that I did not have to search through her whole book for you! 😃

I do want to reread her book soon though. It is such a good one. Shom-bms - Thanks for the online link since I can search through her book quickly from now on if I need to find something.

Pax,
SHW
 
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