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truthbetold

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Well, I’ve been studying for about three years now. I’ve read Keating, Hahn, Armstrong, the Four Witness’, and others. I listen to Relevant Radio. It makes sense. I think about reverting.

Then… I read something like Dave Hunt and want to run the other way, fast!

I go from hot to cold, want to revert and then being sure I never will. Then, I get the bug again to study and again and lean more toward RCC.

I’m stuck.

I can’t get past, what if Hunt is right?
I’m also stuck on what if he isn’t right?

There are also family factors that effect a decision to revert. My mother would rejoice, but my husband would be very disappointed. I’m not sure he would agree to have our marriage convalidated. What if he refuses?

My eternal life is at stake here. I can’t afford to be wrong.
I love the Lord and want to do what is pleasing to Him.

Help!

TruthBeTold
 
The Catholic Church claims to be the Church founded by Jesus Christ and history seems to support their claim. Christian charity obliges us to give others the benefit of the doubt so we are to accept the claims of the Catholic Church, unless they can be proven false beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
seriously! who is david hunt? and why in the world would you ‘run the other way’ based on someone that most people have never heard of?

let me give you this counsel - God would not have you make your decision based on fear.

seek His face, seek His peace, seek His love. when something makes you afraid, ignore it.

He will lead you where He wants you.
 
Todd Easton:
The Catholic Church claims to be the Church founded by Jesus Christ and history seems to support their claim. Christian charity obliges us to give others the benefit of the doubt so we are to accept the claims of the Catholic Church, unless they can be proven false beyond a reasonable doubt.
What I mean is, if there are a thousand reasons why the Catholic Church might be false and just one reason why the Catholic Church might be true, in Christian charity we much conclude that the Catholic Church is true.
 
Todd—

I don’t follow your logic. Could you post it another way 1 more time?

-PM
 
Seek the truth no matter how difficult and confusing the road might be, & God will honor your desire to know him.
 
Regarding Dave Hunt: These are the people I ignore. I came out of this mindset and never want to go back!
 
puzzleannie: Dave Hunt is anti-Catholic. Doing a google search, I found a lot of anti-Catholic web content. Some of it even seems to be intentionally confusing.

truthbetold: Back in the 1980’s, I used to order Jack Chick’s tracts and books myself. There is one topic that always seems to seperate Catholics and Protestants. The Holy Eucharist. If you can firmly decide about the Eucharist, you can then and should ignore those who say it is only symbolic. I had a lot to go through to get where I am (in RCIA). It took me over a month to fully develop what I will share here:

My Personal Articles of Faith

I am not an educated theologian. I never attended a class at a seminary. I am not a Bible Scholar. In writing these personal articles of faith, I cannot fully rely on sectarian interpretations of Bible passages that seem to some degree to be ambiguous because they are disagreed upon by such men as St. Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Bunyan, John Wesley, D. L. Moody, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham or other significant Christians. I must rely on God’s mercy when it comes to deciding controversial topics - because I can easily be wrong. In writing these articles, I can only count on Bible scriptures that are plain and not controversial. And I decide to count on external evidence such as how I see other people live their lives. The scriptural backing for my method of determination is Matthew 7:15-20. The context of Matthew 7:15-20 is set up in Matthew 7:13-14. I’m paraphrasing: The correct way that leads to life is narrow. Those who find it are few. There are many false prophets. And how can I determine the right way if I am lost. If I am a lost sheep, how can I find the Good Shepherd?

CONTINUING
 
CONTINUED

1) Eucharist.
Jack Chick says the wafer god is an idol and calls Roman Catholics are idolaters (that I.H.S. stands for Egyptian gods Isis, Horus and Seb). John Wesley’s Articles of Faith (article 18) says transubstantiation is “repugnant to the plain words of Scripture”. Yet to me the plain words of scripture do not seem to refute transubstantiation plainly enough. John 6:53-58 has Jesus teaching to eat his body and drink his blood. The ancient Egyptians did not have our current alphabet. I recall seeing the letters I.H.S. on the alter and on a cross when I was a Methodist. An English non-Catholic website explains I.H.S. “They are sometimes explained as the initial letters of Jesus Hominum Salvator, i.e., Jesus Saviour of Men; or as In Hac Salus, i.e., In this (Cross) is Salvation.” … and that "I.H.S. on a headstone signifies that the person buried below is asleep ‘In Jesus.’ " When I recently returned to the church of my childhood, the Methodist Minister celebrated communion and included a prayer of consecration “May these become for us the body of Christ”. I am convinced that there are presently some Methodist church members (at least in my home Church) who do not know their bread and grape juice are only symbolic.

The Roman Catholic Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s lifelong faithfulness had a very specific focus. Fulton J. Sheen promised God he would make a Holy Hour of Prayer before Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament everyday of his life. Bishop Sheen has a very deep understanding of God’s word. One of Bishop Sheen’s faults was that he would take unusual means (newspapers, TV) go to very great lengths to reach others for Christ. As a young New Yorker, I knew he had a column in our newspaper (much the same as Billy Graham). Recently, I have been reading the transcripts of Bishop Sheen’s telecasts and they have been very helpful. I cannot see Bishop Sheen as an idolater. How could Bishop Sheen’s teachings be so good if at the center core of his being and his faithfulness he was wrong?

Another Roman Catholic witness that touched my life is Father Damian (hearing of his work from a leper at the leper colony in 1976). “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends” (St. John 15:13). Father Damian died from leprosy in Hawaii. Father Damian was a Christian and not an idolater.

Other Roman Catholic witnesses are the Benedictine Sisters on Linton Hall Road (Manassas VA USA). It is an obvious fact to open-minded Christians living in Prince William County that their ministry is has been and continues to be one of the most significant ministries in our County (BARN, etc.). I once attended a workshop with the sisters. At the workshop, I was quite convinced how much the Sisters loved Jesus. And how they experience the Presence of Christ by faith while they pray the Psalms with Jesus.

Since these precious brothers and sisters are Christians and not idol worshippers, Jack Chick must be wrong. I accept the spiritual fruit of their lives as evidence that the Roman Catholic teaching about the Eucharist is correct.

CONTINUED
 
CONTINUED

2)
Rev 22:18-19 warns against adding words or removing words from this prophetic book. I believe God also does not want man to change the original meaning in any other book of scripture. In one specific church, the pastor usually changed the words of scripture as he celebrated communion. Saying “This is symbolic” when the word symbolic was clearly not in the scripture quoted. We cannot change the wording of scripture so that it fits our limited human understanding.

At this time in my life, I feel quite certain that Protestants were wrong to remove the book of Tobit. I recall reading from the Deuterocanonical books while in college. At this time, they make more sense to me. It seems that a very good understanding of other books in the Old Testament (and eperience that comes with age) may be required to gain more from these books.

3) The Roman Catholic Church holds fast to “The Apostle’s Creed”. Some (for example the United Methodist Church) removes the phrase “He descended into hell” because many Methodists do not understand it.

4) The Roman Catholic Church holds fast to the sanctity of human life. It is strongly opposed to abortion and euthanasia. The Church teaches a grave and clear obligation for Christians to oppose judicial decisions or civil laws that authorize or promote abortion or euthanasia. In contrast, many Protestant clergy never speak of these topics from their pulpits. The silence on abortion or euthanasia has had the result that many Protestant Christians have had abortions thinking it is OK.

5) There are many who feel that a Congregational form of Church government is best. Yet at the same time, usual and functional human institutions (such as businesses, governments, schools and charities) have hierarchical forms of self-government. Jesus wants the Church to be very functional, and His disciples reflected a hierarchical structure during His earthly ministry. Peter, James and John; the nine others in the twelve, the seventy two who were sent out.

I reject this clause of “The Church Covenant” - see mt-pisgah.org/church_covenant.htm - “In case of a difference of opinion in the church, we strive to avoid a contentious spirit and if we cannot unanimously agree, we will cheerfully recognize the right of the majority to govern.” The “right of the majority” typical of a congregational church often leads astray. Would a good shepherd allow the sheep to lead the flock? A hierarchical structure that has the local pastor at the top is not appropriate either. Many ministers acting on their own have led many astray. A prime example was Jim Jones and the People’s Temple Suicide in Jonestown, Guyana, South America.

6) Racism cannot be tolerated. The church must be willing to examine itself, repent and do penance as needed regarding racism.“Eleven o’clock on Sunday morning … is the most segregated hour in Christian America.” - Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

“One wastes time and money in ministering to blacks. . . . What reason can there be that you are so solicitous for the Negro?” - a priest, cited in The Miserable Condition of Black Catholics in America, 1903.

So begins an extraordinary article “Racism and Religion: Partners in Crime?” originally published in “Salt of the Earth” (see salt.claretianpubs.org/issues/racism/unsworth.html and please read it). There are some American Roman Catholics who are aware of their history.

7) Hebrews 12:6 “for whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges”. This is obviously happening in the Roman Catholic Church today, worldwide.

I just noticed that I grabbed an earlier draft version. So there are some minor errors. Sorry.

jmm08
 
What if we’re all wrong and there is no God? Even if you remove all references to God from Catholic teachings, you’ll still be taught to “love your neighbor as yourself”, “feed the poor”, “take care of widows and orphans”, etc, etc.
 
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PioMagnus:
Todd—

I don’t follow your logic. Could you post it another way 1 more time?

-PM
I was thinking, since Christian charity requires us to give others the benefit of the doubt, that this attitude should also be applied to the claims of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church should not have to prove beyond all doubt that it is the true Church. Those who are against the Catholic Church should have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the Catholic Church is not the true Church.
 
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jmm08:
Racism cannot be tolerated. The church must be willing to examine itself, repent and do penance as needed regarding racism.“Eleven o’clock on Sunday morning … is the most segregated hour in Christian America.” - Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

“One wastes time and money in ministering to blacks. . . . What reason can there be that you are so solicitous for the Negro?” - a priest, cited in The Miserable Condition of Black Catholics in America, 1903.

So begins an extraordinary article “Racism and Religion: Partners in Crime?” originally published in “Salt of the Earth” (see salt.claretianpubs.org/issues/racism/unsworth.html and please read it). There are some American Roman Catholics who are aware of their history.
Great post. The link is a real eye opener and sure helps keep one from developing a “holier than thou” attitude.
 
More background:
I’m coming from a liturgical Lutheran tradition.

We ( I ) say and believe the Apostles Creed
We ( I ) believe Christ is present in the bread and wine
We ( I ) believe in infant baptism

There are similarities to the RCC in those respects. ( I realize not the completely the same). Still, coming from this Lutheran church, I am less removed from doctrinal things than a fundramental evangelical. Most conversions stories I read are from the evangelical or more Calvinistic bent.

You’ve recommended to not give credence to Dave Hunt. I can understand that. Personally, I do not see good fruit resulting from his works. Just what he writes is shocking.

Here’s another thing that gets to me. Is anyone familiar with “Martyrs Mirror”?
homecomers.org/mirror/index-mirror.htm
Why were these Anabaptist people killed for their faith?
(even if they were wrong).
Yes, I realize Luther was no friend of the Anabaptists either.

I’m not asking you to defend your faith.
Please help me understand.

Humbly.
 
Check out the website www.biblechristiansociety.com. They offer free CDs and tape and there is one on the one true church concept of Catholicism that is excellent. Also, I suggest calling the Catholic Answers Apologetics line and talking to an expert. I’m sorry that I don’t have their phone number but you can probably get it at their website www.catholic.com.

Please don’t make a rash decision about leaving the Catholic church again. We would hate to lose you! You are in my prayers. God bless you!
 
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truthbetold:
I can’t get past, what if Hunt is right?
I’m also stuck on what if he isn’t right?

TruthBeTold
Hunt is refuted by many Protestant even the notorious James White.

Hunt is like an upgrade of Jack Chick. Why his writing even bother you is beyond me.
 
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truthbetold:
Here’s another thing that gets to me. Is anyone familiar with “Martyrs Mirror”?
homecomers.org/mirror/index-mirror.htm
Why were these Anabaptist people killed for their faith?
(even if they were wrong).
Yes, I realize Luther was no friend of the Anabaptists either.

I’m not asking you to defend your faith.
Please help me understand.

Humbly.
That site is cute isn’'t it? Put many historical “facts” and then it looks very academical and credible.

Many people are kill for their faith. It doesn’t make anabaptist special and it doesn’t make killing people right.
 
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