Here's an opportunity

[Wannano]

And this in the midst of this:

Only about 25%of self professed Catholics fulfill their Sunday & Holy Obligations

Only about 10% advantage Sacramental Confession even annually, {yet nearly 100% receive Holy Communion}

Belief in the Real Presence is SHOCKINGLY low

While I applaud your desire; I nevertheless find it to be a very long way from the reality; the need of just teaching and sharing the basics of our Beautiful Catholic Faith.

I do hope more will take your advice.

God Bless you,

Patrick

Hi Patrick, your patience with me here maybe needed as you may have explained it all here before.
For my info could you outline what the Sunday and Holy obligations comprise? Also the annual Sacremental Confession?

Am I understanding you correctly that a lot of Catholics do not believe in the Real Presence?
Even as a non-Catholic I find it unsettling to understand that a lot (majority?) do not properly practice and believe in the central tenets of faith. Hope I am understanding it wrongly.

 

[PJM]

It has been renewed

Belief in the “Real Presence” is increasingly High

God bless and regards Tony

I’m delighted and grateful to hear this; but on what evidence is the claim made?

God Bless you,

PJM

 

[TonyBS]

I’m delighted and grateful to hear this; but on what evidence is the claim made?

God Bless you,

PJM

The most strong foundation.

God doeth as He Willeth.

The rest is up to us and our use of His Gift of free will.

Regards Tony

 

[PJM]

Hi Patrick, your patience with me here maybe needed as you may have explained it all here before.
For my info could you outline what the Sunday and Holy obligations comprise? Also the annual Sacremental Confession?

Am I understanding you correctly that a lot of Catholics do not believe in the Real Presence?

Even as a non-Catholic I find it unsettling to understand that a lot (majority?) do not properly practice and believe in the central tenets of faith. Hope I am understanding it wrongly.

Thanks for asking,

I’m 71,and don’t have much left besides patience, so it’s not an issue with me.

**Matthew 19:16-17 “And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” **

Exodus 20: 8 commands US to: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Then we look at Mt 16:18-19 And I tell you, YOU are Peter, and on {YOU} this rock I will build my church, {notably singular} and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Then we jump all the way to the last chapter Of Matthew 28: 19-20 “Go YOU therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded {means here: both commanded & taught} YOU; and lo, I am with YOU always, to the close of the age."

So we see “honoring the Sabbath day” is the 3td Commandment of God. Then in Mt 16: the Power and authority of the KEYS {all of them} to heaven single gate are by Jesus’s intent entrusted to Peter & successors. What may not be as evident us this transfer of Authority is the terms “binding and loosing” Verse 19; are in fact based on the THEN common understanding of the terms; POWER of unlimited Governance of that New Church /Faith Jesus proclaimed intent to create {accomplished at the 1st Pentecost}. This is affirmed in Jn 17:18 & 20:21 Cf. Where Jesus precisely articulates that He GOD is sending THEM {the Apostles & successors} with a SHARE of our Lords Own Power & authority: V. 18 “As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. Cf. GO YOU! To the entire world.

This new command is to save souls throughout the entire World; but does NOT specifically say exactly HOW this is to be accomplished. This then is the intended POWER of the “Key’s.” Save souls, do YOU deem best and warranted to accomplish this COMMAND.

So the “Sabbath” has been expanded to begin on the Jewish Sabbath “Saturday evening”; and now includes Sunday’s. {The day of the Resurrection}

Holy Days are those days of religious importance and high significance to the faith and spiritual development of the Souls entrusted to Her {Mother Churches] care. Except for Christmas and Easter there is some latitude in the number of other Holy Days {days of GRAVE moral obligation to attend Mass} determined by the local Councils of Bishops
.
CHECK OUT: https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/holy_days_of_obligation.htm

Yes: sadly there are signifiant numbers of Catholics due to insufficient catechesis who fail to grasp the REALITY of the Real Presence. MOST of them are NOT currently; by there OWN choice, “practicing Catholics”. This reality has in recent years become a major focus of most Bishops and Priest, and is being addressed.

I would NOT go so far as your last position. The numbers of self-professed “catholics” {most who have abandoned the RCC} that hold differing positions of belief than thon those TAUGHT by the RCC is not precisely known. I would certainly NOT agree that it is anywhere near a majority; further where there is a significant number it is a direct result of NOT actually knowing exactly What & WHY the RCC teaches as She does {or should do}. A lack of clear and proper Catechesis on the topics.

The last numbers I personally have seen on PRACTICING Catholics is that there are world-wide over 1 BILLION of us. Do we ALL fit the profile of “fully informed & FULLY Practicing RCC’s”; NO, I suspect not. But what the percentage on IPRCC’s is, is not known. Certainly it is the supper-majority of those 25% who DO fulfill Mass and Holy Day obligations.

But just as certainly there IS a GREAT deal of Catechesis needed in this day and age.
I hope this clarifies for you your concerns.

It would seem that I somehow misled you; for that I am truly sorry:blush:

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[Peter_J]

Even as a non-Catholic I find it unsettling to understand that a lot (majority?) do not properly practice and believe in the central tenets of faith.

If I may say, I believe I understand where you are coming from with ^^ this, but I nevertheless wonder if you aren’t being a little unfair. I’m not going to claim that your church has the problem with people who “do not properly practice and believe in the central tenets of faith” to the same extent that we do … but isn’t that because people in your church would be (relatively) quicker to depart, if they had significant disagreements, for a church that in their minds possessed the truth?

 

[Wannano]

Thanks for asking,

I’m 71,and don’t have much left besides patience, so it’s not an issue with me.

**Matthew 19:16-17 “And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why asketh thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments” **

Exodus 20: 8 commands US to: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Then we look at Mt 16:18-19 And I tell you, YOU are Peter, and on {YOU} this rock I will build my church, {notably singular} and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Then we jump all the way to the last chapter Of Matthew 28: 19-20 “Go YOU therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded {means here: both commanded & taught} YOU; and lo, I am with YOU always, to the close of the age."

So we see “honoring the Sabbath day” is the 3td Commandment of God. Then in Mt 16: the Power and authority of the KEYS {all of them} to heaven single gate are by Jesus’s intent entrusted to Peter & successors. What may not be as evident us this transfer of Authority is the terms “binding and loosing” Verse 19; are in fact based on the THEN common understanding of the terms; POWER of unlimited Governance of that New Church /Faith Jesus proclaimed intent to create {accomplished at the 1st Pentecost}. This is affirmed in Jn 17:18 & 20:21 Cf. Where Jesus precisely articulates that He GOD is sending THEM {the Apostles & successors} with a SHARE of our Lords Own Power & authority: V. 18 “As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. Cf. GO YOU! To the entire world.

This new command is to save souls throughout the entire World; but does NOT specifically say exactly HOW this is to be accomplished. This then is the intended POWER of the “Key’s.” Save souls, do YOU deem best and warranted to accomplish this COMMAND.

So the “Sabbath” has been expanded to begin on the Jewish Sabbath “Saturday evening”; and now includes Sunday’s. {The day of the Resurrection}

Holy Days are those days of religious importance and high significance to the faith and spiritual development of the Souls entrusted to Her {Mother Churches] care. Except for Christmas and Easter there is some latitude in the number of other Holy Days {days of GRAVE moral obligation to attend Mass} determined by the local Councils of Bishops
.
CHECK OUT: https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/holy_days_of_obligation.htm

Yes: sadly there are signifiant numbers of Catholics due to insufficient catechesis who fail to grasp the REALITY of the Real Presence. MOST of them are NOT currently; by there OWN choice, “practicing Catholics”. This reality has in recent years become a major focus of most Bishops and Priest, and is being addressed.

I would NOT go so far as your last position. The numbers of self-professed “catholics” {most who have abandoned the RCC} that hold differing positions of belief than thon those TAUGHT by the RCC is not precisely known. I would certainly NOT agree that it is anywhere near a majority; further where there is a significant number it is a direct result of NOT actually knowing exactly What & WHY the RCC teaches as She does {or should do}. A lack of clear and proper Catechesis on the topics.

The last numbers I personally have seen on PRACTICING Catholics is that there are world-wide over 1 BILLION of us. Do we ALL fit the profile of “fully informed & FULLY Practicing RCC’s”; NO, I suspect not. But what the percentage on IPRCC’s is, is not known. Certainly it is the supper-majority of those 25% who DO fulfill Mass and Holy Day obligations.

But just as certainly there IS a GREAT deal of Catechesis needed in this day and age.
I hope this clarifies for you your concerns.

It would seem that I somehow misled you; for that I am truly sorry:blush:

God Bless you,
Patrick

If I am understanding correctly, approximately 75% of professing Catholics do not fulfill their Mass and Holy Day obligations? Please correct me if I am wrong here.

If belief in the Real Presence is shockingly low then there are three questions come to my mind:

1. What would an approximate percentage be?
2. What would their mindset be, that the host and wine are just symbols?
3. Would participating in the Eucharist with unbelief in Transubstantiation be partaking in an unworthy manner?

I hope I am not out of line in asking these questions. Please understand that I am genuinely trying to wrap my head around what is new info to me. Thanks.

 

[Wannano]

If I may say, I believe I understand where you are coming from with ^^ this, but I nevertheless wonder if you aren’t being a little unfair. I’m not going to claim that your church has the problem with people who “do not properly practice and believe in the central tenets of faith” to the same extent that we do … but isn’t that because people in your church would be (relatively) quicker to depart, if they had significant disagreements, for a church that in their minds possessed the truth?

I am not trying to make any point particular to this information so I don’t see how I am being unfair. I am mind boggled with the info so I want to make sure I am understanding it correctly.

Certainly in Protestant circles people have an easier time “departing” to another church unless they belong to a church that teaches they are the one true church. Among Protestants those churches are a minority I think.

 

[Peter_J]

I am not trying to make any point particular to this information so I don’t see how I am being unfair. I am mind boggled with the info so I want to make sure I am understanding it correctly.

Well, alright. But then I would ask you, couldn’t I just as easily say [not saying I *would] that I’m mind-boggled by the fact that people in your church are quicker to depart for a church that in their minds possessed the truth?

Certainly in Protestant circles people have an easier time “departing” to another church unless they belong to a church that teaches they are the one true church. Among Protestants those churches are a minority I think.

Yeah, there’s that.

 

[worldcitizen]

Nothing would make my day more or make me happier than to know that Catholics are our friends.

 

[PJM]

If I am understanding correctly, approximately 75% of professing Catholics do not fulfill their Mass and Holy Day obligations? Please correct me if I am wrong here.

If belief in the Real Presence is shockingly low then there are three questions come to my mind:

1. What would an approximate percentage be?
2. What would their mindset be, that the host and wine are just symbols?
3. Would participating in the Eucharist with unbelief in Transubstantiation be partaking in an unworthy manner?

I hope I am not out of line in asking these questions. Please understand that I am genuinely trying to wrap my head around what is new info to me. Thanks.

I obviously lacked clarity in the referenced post:blush:

Catholics fall into three groups:

[1] Informed to varying degrees and PRACTICING RC’s =about 25% of self- professed catholics

[2] What we might term HOLIDAY catholic s: those who ARE Catholics BUT on there own terms NOT God’s + 2 3%

[3] The balance of in NAME ONLY self proclaimed for reasons that escape me; other than wishing to identified as “being religious” are factually Apostate-catholic s.

However that 25% is STILL the largest Christian Body of a SINGLE set of Faith beliefs.

As to the percentage of Practicing Catholics who Do or Do Not believe in the Real Presence; I HAVE NO IDEA! Catechesis in recent years has done an admirable job in greatly shrinking what ever the numer may have been.

As to there mind set:shrug: One would assume no different that the protestant community at large BUT again to a FAR, FAR lesser degree of unbelievers; and catechesis is on-going]

As to your third point; I’m NOT a theologian. BUT I suspect NOT so long as it is an unintended reception; not meant to Blaspheme our Lord. There is here a necessary consideration of culpability; that only the person & God can determine

As as A FYI:

IN the POST you reference I had in mind ALL self-proclaimed catholic s.

I [ME personally] cannot imagine ANYONE willingly abandoning God. They choose to leave the RCC for a multitude of personal reasons; NONE of which [again in MY opinion] can be of greater importance to Them, than abandoning God:shrug:

God Bless you, and thanks for the opportunity to clarify my remarks,

PJM

.

 

[Wannano]

I obviously lacked clarity in the referenced post:blush:

Catholics fall into three groups:

[1] Informed to varying degrees and PRACTICING RC’s =about 25% of self- professed catholics

[2] What we might term HOLIDAY catholic s: those who ARE Catholics BUT on there own terms NOT God’s + 2 3%

[3] The balance of in NAME ONLY self proclaimed for reasons that escape me; other than wishing to identified as “being religious” are factually Apostate-catholic s.

However that 25% is STILL the largest Christian Body of a SINGLE set of Faith beliefs.

As to the percentage of Practicing Catholics who Do or Do Not believe in the Real Presence; I HAVE NO IDEA! Catechesis in recent years has done an admirable job in greatly shrinking what ever the numer may have been.

As to there mind set:shrug: One would assume no different that the protestant community at large BUT again to a FAR, FAR lesser degree of unbelievers; and catechesis is on-going]

As to your third point; I’m NOT a theologian. BUT I suspect NOT so long as it is an unintended reception; not meant to Blaspheme our Lord. There is here a necessary consideration of culpability; that only the person & God can determine

As as A FYI:

IN the POST you reference I had in mind ALL self-proclaimed catholic s.

I [ME personally] cannot imagine ANYONE willingly abandoning God. They choose to leave the RCC for a multitude of personal reasons; NONE of which [again in MY opinion] can be of greater importance to Them, than abandoning God:shrug:

God Bless you, and thanks for the opportunity to clarify my remarks,

PJM

.

Thank you for your honesty and taking the time to answer my questions.

 

[In_His_Grace]

My dear friend,

IF you can do it with charity,

What would you like to tell Catholics??

God Bless you,

Patrick

Keep praying…

Lord Jesus Christ, at your Last Supper you prayed to the Father that all should be one. Send your Holy Spirit upon all who bear your name and seek to serve you. Strengthen our faith in you, and lead us to love one another in humility. May we who have been reborn in one baptism be united in one faith under one Shepherd.
Amen. (Ut Unum Sint)

In His Grace

 

[PJM]

Thank you for your honesty and taking the time to answer my questions.

Your welcome; that is why I’m here

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Keep praying…

Lord Jesus Christ, at your Last Supper you prayed to the Father that all should be one. Send your Holy Spirit upon all who bear your name and seek to serve you. Strengthen our faith in you, and lead us to love one another in humility. May we who have been reborn in one baptism be united in one faith under one Shepherd.
Amen. (Ut Unum Sint)

In His Grace

AMEN!

God Bless you!

PJM

 

[TonyBS]

Keep praying…

Lord Jesus Christ, at your Last Supper you prayed to the Father that all should be one. Send your Holy Spirit upon all who bear your name and seek to serve you. Strengthen our faith in you, and lead us to love one another in humility. May we who have been reborn in one baptism be united in one faith under one Shepherd.
Amen. (Ut Unum Sint)

In His Grace

We pray May this be so, God Bless and regards Tony

 

[drac16]

We both can speak out against abortion. When it comes to being pro-life, you and I stand shoulder to shoulder as allies. You are of me and I am of you.