Heretics and mortal sin

[adrian1]

How we must treat the protestants today, they are heretics? They can be saved without sacraments? What are the teaching of the Holy Father about heretics and people who was born in heresy ?

 

[redbaron162]

"Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; " CCC

Keep in mind that is says obstinate denial. Many protestants, like myself when I was young, do not understand or know much of anything about what Catholicism really is. They were born to protestant parents and raised in a protestant church. Many converts from non-Christian religions or a lack of belief joined the church of those who exposed them to the faith. They did not conduct a analysis of the differences and evidence for both sides before joining their local protestant church. So I would argue that many, probably most, protestants are not heretics because they have not made a conscious informed decision to deny some part of the Catholic faith. My interactions with many protestants have highlighted to me that many people really don’t know what the Catholic faith even teaches. (Heck a decent amount of Catholics don’t either)

 

[Vico]

How we must treat the protestants today, they are heretics? They can be saved without sacraments? What are the teaching of the Holy Father about heretics and people who was born in heresy ?

Some are excommunicated (with use of reason over the age of 16, etc.), however the 1983 canon law does not have the canon to avoid them except with good excuse or in the cases of his wife, his parents, his children, servants, subjects (1917 CIC Can. 2267).

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4W.HTM

Masonic Associations
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...aith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

 

[steve-b]

"Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; " CCC

Keep in mind that is says obstinate denial. Many protestants, like myself when I was young, do not understand or know much of anything about what Catholicism really is. They were born to protestant parents and raised in a protestant church. Many converts from non-Christian religions or a lack of belief joined the church of those who exposed them to the faith.

A key point in that definition is “post baptism”

since baptism makes us a new creation, It opens up all of us to receiving the truth.

if in the process of learning the truth, ignorance is replaced with knowledge,

However

Ignorance isn’t always innocent. That’s the case when

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

We have to believe, the sacrament of baptism is working in everyone who receives it. Meaning Jesus wants every baptized person to be fully united to Him in His Church.

redbaron162:

They did not conduct a analysis of the differences and evidence for both sides before joining their local protestant church. So I would argue that many, probably most, protestants are not heretics because they have not made a conscious informed decision to deny some part of the Catholic faith.

hypothetically, maybe you’ve run into this already, If you said to a Protestant who bounced around within Protestantism, if they considered the Catholic Church, what do you think they would say to that?

redbaron162:

My interactions with many protestants have highlighted to me that many people really don’t know what the Catholic faith even teaches. (Heck a decent amount of Catholics don’t either)

Unfortunately…true

And that CCC passage above fits in with that. Their ignorance may not necessarily be deemed innocent for them

 

[AugustTherese]

So I would argue that many, probably most, protestants are not heretics because they have not made a conscious informed decision to deny some part of the Catholic faith

All Protestants are heretics. If they are born into it and are igonorant, they are material heretics. If they have knowledge of the truth and willingly reject it, they are formal heretics.

 

[rose321]

All Protestants are heretics. If they are born into it and are igonorant, they are material heretics. If they have knowledge of the truth and willingly reject it, they are formal heretics.

Respectfully opinion only in pondering on the word >>heretic>>taken from the Greek root>> her e-tik
Heretic >a noun >>meaning>>

One who differs in doctrine from his church
One who differs in opinion from established- refuses to acknowledge or accept a reveal truth.
One who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine or principle in politics or any other socially accepted custom or belief >>more or less…one who chooses or a choice, but came to mean party or school of a man’s choice?
One who holds opinions contrary to customary view as in literature, politics, etc

One simply first looked up the Word >>Heresy>>defining its meaning and where the word >>Heresy took root from>>Greek?

In sourcing out within our Church sources>>The word heresy was given wide currency by Irenaeus in his 2nd Century tract> Contra Haerese.

In seeking out other sources found>> an example to explain further the word>> Heretic>> its meaning>>

>" Like one who is finance officer who didn’t mind being called a heretic, when she decided ( made a choice, or choose) to donate some profits of the company to a charity organization instead of giving all managers pay raises instead" unquote

Peace

 

[Shakuhachi]

In my simple opinion the term “heretic” belongs to the painful past. These days of plurality and religious freedom call for respect of beliefs rather than condemnation.

 

[friardchips]

People have been advised not to use the word ‘heretic’, or ‘heresy’, probably because use of the words don’t necessarily help to build bridges of understanding.

 

[AugustTherese]

People have been advised not to use the word ‘heretic’, or ‘heresy’, probably because use of the words don’t necessarily help to build bridges of understanding.

Context. We are to condemn every heretical doctrine as such. This doesn’t mean we go around calling people heretics to their faces.

 

[ShowersofRoses]

As an ex-Protestant growing up in an atmosphere of love and devotion to God, this thread is making me roll my eyes in disgust. This sort of talk is not helpful in converting our brothers and sisters in Protestant denominations. I don’t know why some think that throwing around accusations of heresy is helpful–but it’s not. It makes me wonder if the OP has met any Protestants or where he is getting these ideas.

As previous posters said, this is not the Middle Ages. Most Protestants are born into their denomination and have absolutely no idea what the Catholic teaches or stands for. Unless the Holy Spirit works a miracle in their lives, like He did for my family, few will ever fully understand what they’re missing out on.

And let’s not forget what a HUGE range the term Protestants covers…all the way from evangelicals to Lutherans to Southern Baptists. There’s a huge difference between all of these denominations, but at the core they are still worshipping the Trinity and trusting in Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross. Let’s not slander them all.

The Church has the fullness of the Truth, but our Protestant brethren are still loving and worshipping God the best they know how. Many of them live much holier lives than many Catholics. It would be arrogant to say they are all heretics and going to Hell. I think more loving, ecumenical language would be helpful here.

Don’t forget how many Protestants read here and could be turned off by language such as this.

 

[Genesis315]

There’s a general presumption that they are not guilty of the sin of separation. From the Catechism:

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities…”

Here’s an explanation of this, specifically with regard to those in England, from the 19th century Cardinal Henry Edward Manning:

It was too long for CAs new format, so here is link to an older post of mine where it is fully quoted:

Catholic Dogma and Vatican II on Ecumenism Apologetics

The latter formulation persupposes good faith–and therefore no guilt for heresy or schism–on the part of those who might be saved in the separated communities. From the decree on ecumenism: “The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation…” The more restrictive texts presuppose guilt. Note that the definition from Florence is conditional (“unless…”). It is possible for one visibly separated to still be…

 

[friardchips]

Hi. To comment here, that it would helpful if you could include the Vatican document URL with the citation, from ‘818’. Thanks.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Most Protestants today are material heretics, not formal heretics. They never knew they were wrong. Treat them as you would anyone else, with kindness and try to show them the truth only found in the Catholic Church.

Formal heretics are Catholics raised in the truth of the church but who later turn from it.

 

[friardchips]

It would be false to suggest that no protestant individuals were against the truth, that truth being the Catholic Church has presiding authority, and that some protestants are not obstinate in their views.

 

[Genesis315]

Here you go! It’s on this page:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

 

[friardchips]

Thank you for posting it.