Hermaphrodites, free will, and homosexuality

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A friend and I were discussing homosexuality and she brought up the subject of hermaphrodites. I explained how homosexuality is not ‘inborn’ and that the person has the free will to choose whether or not to act upon homosexual desires (that these feelings are conditioned and subjective). She gave the example of hermaphrodites and how they were not given the ‘choice’ about what sex to be, if they are one sex as all, so it’s not their fault if they are a man with feelings for a man. I must admit I’m thoroughly confused. I’m not quite sure what she is asking. I think it’s a mixture of homosexuality and free will. I couldn’t find any dogmatic teachings on hermaphrodites with the Faith. I didn’t know if you could shed some light on to this subject…She also said something like if God intended for there to be a man and a woman, so why are there hermaphrodites (intergender)?
 
By definition, if you have a Y chomosome you are a male. So hermaphrodites are males with a mutation but because they still have that y chromosome they are males. Unless I am mistaken, I don’t think hermaphrodites can become pregnant which further evidences that maleness in them.

I don’t think there are female hermaphrodtites (only have x chromosomes) but if there are, then they are female.
 
wjp984 said:
By definition, if you have a Y chomosome you are a male.
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Unfortunately, its not that easy.

I’ll reference the article at the US National Library of Medicine.

First, the word “hermaphrodite” is frowned upon by most medical professionals, as well as by those affected by the condition. In talking about the conditions, “intersex” or “disorders of sexual development” are preferred.

Its entirely possible for a person with XX chromosomes to have male genitalia and a male appearance, yet have ovaries. Its also possible for someone with a XY chromosomes to have a female external appearance, including vulva and vagina.

And, of course, chromosomal combinations come in more than just those pairs.

nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001669.htm
jonnlaureng said:
She also said something like if God intended for there to be a man and a woman, so why are there hermaphrodites (intergender)?
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Because nature makes mistakes. There are many conditions, commonly called birth defects, which occur during fetal development. Spina bifida, cleft palate, autism etc are just some of the examples. Disorders of sexual development are part of this phenomenon.
 
Yes, I realize this is an extreme example, but it is one nonetheless I’m sure other people have considered.

I’m not sure I worded her question correctly…or even that I fully understand it. haha I guess her major concern with intergender people was if they do not have a ‘set’ sex, and it is chosen for them, then God is basically setting them up to be homosexual. As in, it is not an intergender man’s fault that he has feelings for another man because he should have been a woman but doctors or parents chose his sex for him. She concluded that that went against Catholicism’s concept of ‘free will’ since he did not have a choice in the matter.

It also raised the question of birth defects going against ‘nature’. If God created man and woman in His image, intending for natural law to focus around a man and woman, not a man and man or woman and woman, then why create a birth defect that goes against the divinity of human law/nature and puts that person in the situation of not knowing his or her true sex?
 
I think it is important to bear the following scripture passage (Matt 19:12) in mind when considering this issue: “There are eunuchs born so from their mother’s womb, there are eunuchs made so by human agency and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven…” (taken from the New Jerusalem Bible).
 
Intersexuals exist for a variety of reasons. There are chemicals in certain processed foods that can cause a fetus to be intersexed if their biological mom is exposed to them during pregnancy (contraceptive pills in the water supply can do the same thing). There could also be genetic mutations going on during pregnancy. I myself think that this condition could be affecting me, but I haven’t been tested yet. I pray God blesses you as you read this post.
 
True Hermaphroditism is a rare disorder, and they don’t have sexual attraction. So they aren’t even in the same category as homosexuals who are defined by their behavior. Homosexuals don’t have any genetic proof of their attraction to the same sex. Instead, the evidence strongly points to it being a learned behavior as follows:

“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Government Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300
 
livingwordunity said:
True Hermaphroditism is a rare disorder, and they don’t have sexual attraction. So they aren’t even in the same category as homosexuals who are defined by their behavior.
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What makes you think that true hermaphrodites do not experience sexual attraction? I would love to see a source.
 
jonnlaureng said:
I’m not sure I worded her question correctly…or even that I fully understand it. haha I guess her major concern with intergender people was if they do not have a ‘set’ sex, and it is chosen for them, then God is basically setting them up to be homosexual. As in, it is not an intergender man’s fault that he has feelings for another man because he should have been a woman but doctors or parents chose his sex for him. She concluded that that went against Catholicism’s concept of ‘free will’ since he did not have a choice in the matter.
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For a sin to be mortal, there has to be full knowledge, full consent, grave matter bla bla bla. So for the individual born with one of those conditions, how much knowledge and consent have they given?

Back in the day, not a whole lot was known about these conditions and the effects of them on the adult. A child may be born looking more “male” than female, and the doctors made the decision, in conjunction with the parents or not, to operate to provide more gender specific appearance.

So a child looking male, could actually be female chromosomally and as a result, surgically altered to be male, but they were female. So if they sought the commonship of females thinking they were male, would that make them same sex attracted? Do they have the knowledge to know waht they are? Is it really full consent when they are never had the ability or choice to make full consent from day one?

Of course, if they were surgically altered to reflect the gender they appeared most slanted towards, and then as they aged and matured, what would happen if their genetic disposition started to show? They were then in the wrong body, a body surgically altered at birth. They’d grow up thinking they were one gender, as reflected by surgery, but feeling another, their truly genetic one. So if altered to be male when they were female, they would feel the need to seek male, appearing homosexual in action.

Its an unfortunate situation to be in, for everyone, the family, friends, and most especially the person. I don’t think God sets up these people for failure, they are simply the victims of birth defects. God doesn’t will defects, he doesn’t point to some foetus and say “right, you, XXY, hahaha, enjoy!”

Basically, I don’t see how these people could truly have full consent. They’d be so emotionally stressed from their expereiences, perhaps coupled with mental health issues, that any choice they did make would be suspect in culpibility.

These individuals are burderned with a heavy cross, and the best thing for them is to unite with Christ and his suffering. To live a chaste life.

However, with that said, if they know what their genetic sex is then I think they’re more then morally allowed to seek marriage with individuals with the opposite gender. Of course, then it depends on can they consumate the marriage, and if not, could furhter surgery be given to reflect theri genetic gender?
 
livingwordunity said:
True Hermaphroditism is a rare disorder, and they don’t have sexual attraction. So they aren’t even in the same category as homosexuals who are defined by their behavior. Homosexuals don’t have any genetic proof of their attraction to the same sex. Instead, the evidence strongly points to it being a learned behavior as follows:

“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Government Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300
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That is very interesting. I always wondered and even suspected that perhaps child sexual abuse played a big role in whether or not a person developed sexual attraction to members of the same sex. Of course, this does not necessarily mean that child sexual abuse is the only factor involved and it isn’t even definitive that child sexual abuse is the cause of homosexuality but it is certainly an interesting theory.
 
livingwordunity said:
“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Government Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300
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But they doesn’t explain why therapy has such a low success rate. I also find these studies to be rather odd, because as someone who knows homosexuals I have yet to find someone who was molested or who had a bad relationship with their parents prior to “coming out”.
 
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