Hiccup in Transfer: What can I do?

[Miserissima]

As you may know, my Dad was Orthodox and my Mom was Latin Rite. I was raised Latin, but with a lot of hme devotions and trips to Temple that were distinctly Eastern.

In the past three years, I’ve gone through a lot which has hindered my attending Byzantine Divine Liturgy (transportation, cost, distance, etc). I also understand there is no *need *for a canonical transfer from LR to EC, I ca “just go” as many others do, but reasons previously discussed, I feel quite strongly about transferring someday. By God’s Grace alone, I’ve accepted that it isn’t now.

Digressing, there may be no choice but to delay my education and canonical transfer as I’m moving to a place that has Orthodox churches but no Eastern Catholic churches. So I’m n\won’t be “Swimming the Dnieper,” I’ll be “treading” it!

I know that I’m obligated to follow the praxis of my rite. For example, I am obligated to fast while those in my EC parish do not, based on our calendars, and vice versa. Yet, I am a ‘hybrid’ who already has experience with Eastern devotions as well as Latin ones.

Based on posts in this forum, it has struck me that having blended the two could somehow detract from…I’m not sure: a fuller spirituality? The community in which I am engaged? I’m not sure.

My EC priest said, “The Holy Spirit will guide your heart. You can pray as you are led.” My EC priest was my Latin priest’s instructor in the Seminary; I’ve received the same advice.

How much am I allowed to “borrow” from Eastern private devotions as a Latin? Can I continue my prayer rope as well as the rosary? If, in X years, I am able to transfer, would I have to give up the rosary?

I don’t want to offend others; I don’t want to become syncretic, which seems to be a particular offense.

Upon reading several posts in this forum, I’m not sure what devotions I’m allowed to practice. Heck, I’ve probably been saying prayers I shouldn’t have since childhood, borrowing from both the EC and the EO.

I suppose, as my Orthodox brethren have pointed out, I have a “Western mind” that wants it all spelled out. I just want to know what devotions I can keep and which I should put aside until I’m able to more fully immerse myself in the Eastern Catholic culture again.

 

[Vico]

As you may know, my Dad was Orthodox and my Mom was Latin Rite. I was raised Latin, but with a lot of hme devotions and trips to Temple that were distinctly Eastern.

In the past three years, I’ve gone through a lot which has hindered my attending Byzantine Divine Liturgy (transportation, cost, distance, etc). I also understand there is no *need *for a canonical transfer from LR to EC, I ca “just go” as many others do, but reasons previously discussed, I feel quite strongly about transferring someday. By God’s Grace alone, I’ve accepted that it isn’t now.

Digressing, there may be no choice but to delay my education and canonical transfer as I’m moving to a place that has Orthodox churches but no Eastern Catholic churches. So I’m n\won’t be “Swimming the Dnieper,” I’ll be “treading” it!

I know that I’m obligated to follow the praxis of my rite. For example, I am obligated to fast while those in my EC parish do not, based on our calendars, and vice versa. Yet, I am a ‘hybrid’ who already has experience with Eastern devotions as well as Latin ones.

Based on posts in this forum, it has struck me that having blended the two could somehow detract from…I’m not sure: a fuller spirituality? The community in which I am engaged? I’m not sure.

My EC priest said, “The Holy Spirit will guide your heart. You can pray as you are led.” My EC priest was my Latin priest’s instructor in the Seminary; I’ve received the same advice.

How much am I allowed to “borrow” from Eastern private devotions as a Latin? Can I continue my prayer rope as well as the rosary? If, in X years, I am able to transfer, would I have to give up the rosary?

I don’t want to offend others; I don’t want to become syncretic, which seems to be a particular offense.

Upon reading several posts in this forum, I’m not sure what devotions I’m allowed to practice. Heck, I’ve probably been saying prayers I shouldn’t have since childhood, borrowing from both the EC and the EO.

I suppose, as my Orthodox brethren have pointed out, I have a “Western mind” that wants it all spelled out. I just want to know what devotions I can keep and which I should put aside until I’m able to more fully immerse myself in the Eastern Catholic culture again.

Since we are a community of Catholics what we do publicly is witness to our faith and has an effect on those around us. So, it is significant when the sacramental discipline is followed according to our Church sui iuris of enrollment, although we are free to follow our chosen private devotions in accord with the Catholic faith.

CIC (Latin)
Can. 214 The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescripts of their own rite approved by the legitimate pastors of the Church and to follow their own form of spiritual life so long as it is consonant with the doctrine of the Church.

CCEO (eastern)
Canon 17
The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescriptions of their own Church sui iuris, and to follow their own form of spiritual life consonant with the teaching of the Church.

 

[jmcrae]

As you may know, my Dad was Orthodox and my Mom was Latin Rite. I was raised Latin, but with a lot of hme devotions and trips to Temple that were distinctly Eastern.

In the past three years, I’ve gone through a lot which has hindered my attending Byzantine Divine Liturgy (transportation, cost, distance, etc). I also understand there is no *need *for a canonical transfer from LR to EC, I ca “just go” as many others do, but reasons previously discussed, I feel quite strongly about transferring someday. By God’s Grace alone, I’ve accepted that it isn’t now.

Digressing, there may be no choice but to delay my education and canonical transfer as I’m moving to a place that has Orthodox churches but no Eastern Catholic churches. So I’m n\won’t be “Swimming the Dnieper,” I’ll be “treading” it!

I know that I’m obligated to follow the praxis of my rite. For example, I am obligated to fast while those in my EC parish do not, based on our calendars, and vice versa. Yet, I am a ‘hybrid’ who already has experience with Eastern devotions as well as Latin ones.

Based on posts in this forum, it has struck me that having blended the two could somehow detract from…I’m not sure: a fuller spirituality? The community in which I am engaged? I’m not sure.

My EC priest said, “The Holy Spirit will guide your heart. You can pray as you are led.” My EC priest was my Latin priest’s instructor in the Seminary; I’ve received the same advice.

How much am I allowed to “borrow” from Eastern private devotions as a Latin? Can I continue my prayer rope as well as the rosary? If, in X years, I am able to transfer, would I have to give up the rosary?

On a field trip to an EC Church last summer, the priest gave all of us prayer ropes and other Eastern devotional items, and he was well aware that we were Latins, which to me signifies that we Latins are permitted to use the EC devotions, should we so choose.

I have also known some ECs who pray the Rosary at home, though not very many. They certainly pray it in school, and they pray it with the Latin community when they are present for it.

I don’t want to offend others; I don’t want to become syncretic, which seems to be a particular offense.

How could it be “syncretic” - it’s the same religion?

Syncretism is when you combine elements from two or more different religions.

Upon reading several posts in this forum, I’m not sure what devotions I’m allowed to practice. Heck, I’ve probably been saying prayers I shouldn’t have since childhood, borrowing from both the EC and the EO.

I suppose, as my Orthodox brethren have pointed out, I have a “Western mind” that wants it all spelled out. I just want to know what devotions I can keep and which I should put aside until I’m able to more fully immerse myself in the Eastern Catholic culture again.

I’m with your pastor - pray as you feel moved to pray, and don’t worry about mixing things up. It’s not so bad. St. John Paul the Great, whose feast day this is, said that the Latin and Eastern Rites are two lungs of one body - and you know that the heart and mind receive oxygen from both lungs equally, without worrying about distinguishing left from right.

 

[lmelahn]

The Church is actually quite “liberal” as regards to people’s private devotions. If they inspire true holiness of life and are consistent with the Church’s teachings, then the faithful are free to make use of whatever they find helpful.

It kind of reminds me of a conversation I had a while ago. Somehow the Rosary came up, and someone asked me if it was permitted to pray a Rosary with six decades. The answer, of course, is “yes.” You can pray 4 1/2 decades, or 2 3/4, or whatever you like. (The last one might be a little difficult, because you would have to pray 27 1/2 Hail Mary’s .) The Rosary is not a liturgical prayer (like the Mass or the Liturgy of the Hours), so there is no “official” formula that everyone is required to use.

 

[wynd]

On a field trip to an EC Church last summer, the priest gave all of us prayer ropes and other Eastern devotional items, and he was well aware that we were Latins, which to me signifies that we Latins are permitted to use the EC devotions, should we so choose.

I have also known some ECs who pray the Rosary at home, though not very many. They certainly pray it in school, and they pray it with the Latin community when they are present for it.

How could it be “syncretic” - it’s the same religion?

Syncretism is when you combine elements from two or more different religions.

I’m with your pastor - pray as you feel moved to pray, and don’t worry about mixing things up. It’s not so bad. St. John Paul the Great, whose feast day this is, said that the Latin and Eastern Rites are two lungs of one body - and you know that the heart and mind receive oxygen from both lungs equally, without worrying about distinguishing left from right.

It is syncretistic because you’re still creating your own spirituality by picking and choosing this from the Latin tradition, that from the Byzantine tradition, some other thing from the Coptic tradition, etc. I feel that if you’re going to be Latin, be Latin. If you’re going to be Byzantine, be Byzantine, and so on. For example, I don’t pray the Rosary not because there’s anything inherently wrong with it or because I disagree with the actual content of the prayers, but because it simply doesn’t belong in my tradition.

 

[SyroMalankara]

As you may know, my Dad was Orthodox and my Mom was Latin Rite. I was raised Latin, but with a lot of hme devotions and trips to Temple that were distinctly Eastern.

In the past three years, I’ve gone through a lot which has hindered my attending Byzantine Divine Liturgy (transportation, cost, distance, etc). I also understand there is no *need *for a canonical transfer from LR to EC, I ca “just go” as many others do, but reasons previously discussed, I feel quite strongly about transferring someday. By God’s Grace alone, I’ve accepted that it isn’t now.

Digressing, there may be no choice but to delay my education and canonical transfer as I’m moving to a place that has Orthodox churches but no Eastern Catholic churches. So I’m n\won’t be “Swimming the Dnieper,” I’ll be “treading” it!

I know that I’m obligated to follow the praxis of my rite. For example, I am obligated to fast while those in my EC parish do not, based on our calendars, and vice versa. Yet, I am a ‘hybrid’ who already has experience with Eastern devotions as well as Latin ones.

Based on posts in this forum, it has struck me that having blended the two could somehow detract from…I’m not sure: a fuller spirituality? The community in which I am engaged? I’m not sure.

My EC priest said, “The Holy Spirit will guide your heart. You can pray as you are led.” My EC priest was my Latin priest’s instructor in the Seminary; I’ve received the same advice.

How much am I allowed to “borrow” from Eastern private devotions as a Latin? Can I continue my prayer rope as well as the rosary? If, in X years, I am able to transfer, would I have to give up the rosary?

I don’t want to offend others; I don’t want to become syncretic, which seems to be a particular offense.

Upon reading several posts in this forum, I’m not sure what devotions I’m allowed to practice. Heck, I’ve probably been saying prayers I shouldn’t have since childhood, borrowing from both the EC and the EO.

I suppose, as my Orthodox brethren have pointed out, I have a “Western mind” that wants it all spelled out. I just want to know what devotions I can keep and which I should put aside until I’m able to more fully immerse myself in the Eastern Catholic culture again.

I think adopting some Eastern devotions, if you are called to do so, is perfectly fine. Unless you are following the old Calendar or AnglicanUse, I doubt there will be days when you will be fasting and the Easterners will not, more than likely they will fast on your fast days, and have many more in addition.

As to your worry about syncreticism, that’s not really something mentioned by the canons for PRIVATE worship… it is to be avoided in PUBLIC worship - such as rosary before the Byzantine Divine Liturgy in the Church… or Latin Adoration after “Eastern Mass”.

 

[Miserissima]

I think adopting some Eastern devotions, if you are called to do so, is perfectly fine. Unless you are following the old Calendar or AnglicanUse, I doubt there will be days when you will be fasting and the Easterners will not, more than likely they will fast on your fast days, and have many more in addition.

As to your worry about syncreticism, that’s not really something mentioned by the canons for PRIVATE worship… it is to be avoided in PUBLIC worship - such as rosary before the Byzantine Divine Liturgy in the Church… or Latin Adoration after “Eastern Mass”.

I noticed the calendars – worded it wrong. They do have more days, and it’s “noble” that I wanted to try their type of fast but my mentor explained it’s something to ease into…both in intensity and time.

:tiphat: And thanks for each reply and clarification. I’ve found the Divine Liturgy to be my anchor, even when I can’t make it as often as I’d like, or be as involved with the parish as I feel I should.

There really are areas I struggle to not “overthink things,” and this is one of them. My “mentor” and my EC pastor, respectively, are (thankfully) very sensitive to this. But their answers tend to be…cryptic, because it’s all so subjective to an individual’s heart, kwim?

 

[Elizium23]

It is syncretistic because you’re still creating your own spirituality by picking and choosing this from the Latin tradition, that from the Byzantine tradition, some other thing from the Coptic tradition, etc. I feel that if you’re going to be Latin, be Latin. If you’re going to be Byzantine, be Byzantine, and so on. For example, I don’t pray the Rosary not because there’s anything inherently wrong with it or because I disagree with the actual content of the prayers, but because it simply doesn’t belong in my tradition.

I think the accusation of syncretism is inaccurate at best, arising from a misunderstanding of the term, and probably uncharitable, because it assumes that our personal liturgical patrimony must remain somehow “pure”. I don’t think that you will find that the Catholic Church teaches that personal devotions must never borrow from other Catholic rites.

Syncretism is generally understood to mean a fusion of beliefs, often contradictory. This mixing of devotional rites is more properly termed “hybridization”. Syncretism would be adding demon worship to Catholicism and calling it “Santeria”. Syncretism would be mixing paganism, Judaism, and Christianity and calling it “Mormonism”. Praying the rosary or a prayer rope or venerating icons cannot be syncretism, that is absurd.

If it is syncretism then I am guilty of it because I love Eastern icons and I maintan several in my shrine at home. I venerate them often and I pray various Eastern prayers such as the Jesus Prayer. I also go to Byzantine Divine Liturgy whenever I can. I eat pierogies, is that syncretistic?

That being said, I think that private devotions are one thing and public liturgy is another. I do not believe that rites should be hybridized. The Eastern Churches suffer greatly from Latinizations and that kind of thing must be reversed and avoided wherever possible. That is in public liturgy. I think if people can keep a private devotion private, then they can have it. If Byzantines praying the rosary in a home begin to do it in a group, and then request to use the church building, and then request that Father Deacon leads it, that is a Latinization and that should be suppressed with vigor.

 

[angelic06]

I think there is some misunderstanding as to whether Christians can borrow from each other spiritualities…or that a spirituality is even intended to remain “pure”, for that matter. Remember that Christ did not give an explicit method as to how we should pray, save for the “Our Father” and the sacraments of the Church, before going to his Father. So the prayers, especially the private devotions, may be regulated by the Church insomuch as it is not contrary to the Gospel.

What is most important is that whatever tradition the faithful choose to observe, they observe it wholly. For example, in the Byzantine tradition, there is no Divine Liturgy (Mass) during the weekdays of Great and Holy Lent as it is not considered compatible with the spirit of fasting, according to the Byzantine tradition. Instead, they have Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts. So, a Byzantine Catholic who attends daily Mass at the local Latin Church, regularly, might be accused of going against the tradition.

However, as far as I know the Rosary, a private devotion, does not go against any aspect of Byzantine tradition that I am aware of, as long as no one forces others to participate in it and that it is not used to supplant “true” Byzantine prayers, such as the Jesus Prayer.

Overall, I find the idea that one cannot occasionally borrow from other Christian traditions to be patently absurd, as long as it is in accord with the revealed Gospel and Catholic teaching and it does not supplant aspects of one’s own tradition.

 

[abiramishankar]

I dont get it How could it be “syncretic” If it is the same religion ?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Some syncretic problems include an out of place addition from another Tradition, instead of fully embracing one’s own. For example, no evening prayer but public adoration. No Traditional Intercessory Prayers to St. Mary but Rosary.

It’s syncreticism in the negative sense. On the other hand, welcoming the local RC parish to worship with us fully, and going to their parish and praying the Latin Tradition fully - not syncretism but fullness.

 

[abiramishankar]

Some syncretic problems include an out of place addition from another Tradition, instead of fully embracing one’s own. For example, no evening prayer but public adoration. No Traditional Intercessory Prayers to St. Mary but Rosary.

It’s syncreticism in the negative sense. On the other hand, welcoming the local RC parish to worship with us fully, and going to their parish and praying the Latin Tradition fully - not syncretism but fullness.

I totally Agree with you