Hideous Catechesis II

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Scott_D

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Hello all:

A year ago I started a thread called Hideous Catechesis. I described a conversation/argument I had during a Disciples in Mission night at some friend’s house. Our parish religious ed. director was there and she stated with authority, “There is no purgatory. We don’t even teach it to the kids any more because it scares them.” After I cited some Biblical proofs of purgatory, she said, “We can’t really know what the Bible means because it was written so long ago.” Needless to say I was flabbergasted. Allegedly, she had a near death experience and that is her proof that there is no purgatory because she’d “been to the other side.”
Well, I asked you all out there what I should do and I decided to send a letter to our bishop. I bypassed our parish priest because, in the words of one friend, “He probably agrees with her.” Needless to say, he is on the liberal side. However, we do have a fairly orthodox bishop. After many months, the bishop actually contacted her. I don’t know what was said, but she is still in the same job, but now there are some ruffled feathers with her and the hostess of last year’s disciples in mission.
My question is, did I not follow the correct protocol in this matter? I felt I had to say something since this woman is supposed to be educating our young in Catholic doctrine. Our priest is a good guy but I trust our bishop’s orthodoxy, which is why I sent him the note instead of the priest. What do you think?
 
Scott_D said:
Hello all:

A year ago I started a thread called Hideous Catechesis. I described a conversation/argument I had during a Disciples in Mission night at some friend’s house. Our parish religious ed. director was there and she stated with authority, “There is no purgatory. We don’t even teach it to the kids any more because it scares them.” After I cited some Biblical proofs of purgatory, she said, “We can’t really know what the Bible means because it was written so long ago.” Needless to say I was flabbergasted. Allegedly, she had a near death experience and that is her proof that there is no purgatory because she’d “been to the other side.”
Well, I asked you all out there what I should do and I decided to send a letter to our bishop. I bypassed our parish priest because, in the words of one friend, “He probably agrees with her.” Needless to say, he is on the liberal side. However, we do have a fairly orthodox bishop. After many months, the bishop actually contacted her. I don’t know what was said, but she is still in the same job, but now there are some ruffled feathers with her and the hostess of last year’s disciples in mission.
My question is, did I not follow the correct protocol in this matter? I felt I had to say something since this woman is supposed to be educating our young in Catholic doctrine. Our priest is a good guy but I trust our bishop’s orthodoxy, which is why I sent him the note instead of the priest. What do you think?
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Personally I’d have gone to the Priest anyway just so you can say that you did and THEN go tot the Bishop. Otherwise, you did the right thing. After seven years plus of working with high school kids, I’m amazed at some of the things people have told them and passed it off as being “truth”.

Good on ya for doing this. Through your efforts you are not only making people’s lives better, but also easier (the people whose job it is to correct these kinds of errors).
 
Be careful. The New Agers run very effective lynch mobs. After all, when they believe they have seen heaven for themselves, who needs Jesus or the Saints to tell us what we should expect?

The best way to fight someone like her is with logic. If she believes her own experience trumps the Bible and the Church doctrines, why is she in the church? Ask her that and let her start to see where her own logic breaks down. Whatever her experience was, she can’t show that it disproved Purgatory* logically*.

I think you did the right, if not the best, thing. I had to complain about a similar problem and the diocese directed me back to the priest with some encouragement that they would support my point of view but to honor channels of authority. In the end, the offending person was dismissed, but not without a devastating assault on my private life. I moved to another parish rather than deal with the remaining New Age parishioners.
 
I have to admit that it would’ve been easy to let it go. I should have gone to the priest but I honestly didn’t trust him as much as the bishop. I also have to admit that I felt galvanized by Michael Voris of Real Catholic TV, who inspired me to not just open my big mouth but try to do something.
 
Good, we all need to do this. FWIW, I am very happy in the parish I found that I would never have visited except for the brouhaha with the New Agers.
 
We had a sister who claimed that we understand these things much better than the apostles did because the human brain has evolved since their time. :eek:
 
\Allegedly, she had a near death experience and that is her proof that there is no purgatory because she’d “been to the other side.”\

**Ask your friend to read THE SOUL AFTER DEATH by Fr. Seraphim Rose.

He builds a very good case to prove that such near death experiences are nothing but an encounter not with the next world at all, but merely the invisible part of THIS world, which is the normal habitation of demons.**
 
**This is exactly why so few Catholics know the Truth of the faith & so many drift away!

You did the correct thing & i commend you for taking action!
**
Well intentioned, yet ignorant people like your parish religious ed director must be challenged with the Truth as taught by the Catholic Church! She has confused Purgatory with limbo, which was never taught as a doctrine of the Church, & was simply a theological discussion.

i would strongly recommend that you meet with this woman, in private so she doesn’t feel threatened & confront her with specific errors like the Church’s teachings listed below.

"let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." (Jas 5:20)

**Ask her if she has ever read the Catechism Of the Catholic Church? It is very clear about Purgatory; **

"The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
Code: 
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.(CCC 1031)
"To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. **Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. ****On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. **This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain." (CCC 1472) See also CCC1475 & 1498

"We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." (1 John 4:6)

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
What left me speechless at first was the arrogance with which she stated-“There is no purgatory.” The catechism and the bible are extremely clear. The bible is so clear that I don’t know how the Protestants can miss it.

Thanks for your support. I really appreciate it. 😃
 
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