High profile Catholics who go against Catholic teaching

[Tommy999]

I assume that Catholics are supposed to believe and follow Catholic teachings, including the teachings on Pro-Life and the teaching of marriage between one man and one woman, and I assume most do. I support these teachings, too, by the way.

In the US, there are a few high-profile Catholic politicians who are Pro-Choice and defend abortion rights, and others who openly support so-called gay marriage.

Question:
Do these politicians remain in good standing with the Church when they openly disagree with its teachings, or are they treated with mercy and prayer?

Just curious if they are confronted (in love, of course) by any form of Catholic hierarchy for their positions or whether they are left alone. I haven’t heard much about this one way or the other but was curious how the issue is handled.

 

[Vonsalza]

I assume that Catholics are supposed to believe and follow Catholic teachings, including the teachings on Pro-Life and the teaching of marriage between one man and one woman, and I assume most do. I support these teachings, too, by the way.

In the US, there are a few high-profile Catholic politicians who are Pro-Choice and defend abortion rights, and others who openly support so-called gay marriage.

Question:
Do these high-profile politicians remain in good standing with the Church when they openly disagree with its teachings, or are they treated with mercy and prayer?

Just curious if they are confronted (in love, of course) by any form of Catholic hierarchy for their positions or whether they are left alone. I haven’t heard much about this one way or the other but was curious how the issue is handled.

It’s a hard issue because the “why” is extremely pertinent and rarely known.

Lot’s of Catholics might support gay marriage because the government is, by rule, a secular institution. If there is going to be such a thing as “marriage” defined by government, it can’t be beholden to any particular faith’s understanding of it. “Well, the Bible/Church says…” is correctly retorted with “Well, THIS is not a Christian theocracy, for good or bad”. If anything, government probably shouldn’t have a concept of marriage, but alas…

There may even be a few Catholics that support legal abortion on the basis that these usually poor and single twenty-something black women are going to get one anyway. It’s better that it be done in a clean and safe setting rather than at home with toxic concoctions or crude and dirty instruments. This doesn’t justify the abortion itself in any way. It’s just about the safety of the woman who is going to get it done regardless. For them, the best target for ending abortion wouldn’t be institutional, it would be the cultural mindset that thinks it’s “ok”. Which, unfortunately, requires more work than merely voting.

But for the unapologetically liberal Catholics who support these things for nefarious reasons, there are plenty of known examples of Church leadership reaching out to them.

 

[Jestersage]

So what did they do with Justin the Canadian?

 

[Tommy999]

It’s a hard issue because the “why” is extremely pertinent and rarely known.

Lot’s of Catholics might support gay marriage because the government is, by rule, a secular institution. If there is going to be such a thing as “marriage” defined by government, it can’t be beholden to any particular faith’s understanding of it. “Well, the Bible/Church says…” is correctly retorted with “Well, THIS is not a Christian theocracy, for good or bad”. If anything, government probably shouldn’t have a concept of marriage, but alas…

There may even be a few Catholics that support legal abortion on the basis that these usually poor and single twenty-something black women are going to get one anyway. It’s better that it be done in a clean and safe setting rather than at home with toxic concoctions or crude and dirty instruments. This doesn’t justify the abortion itself in any way. It’s just about the safety of the woman who is going to get it done regardless. For them, the best target for ending abortion wouldn’t be institutional, it would be the cultural mindset that thinks it’s “ok”. Which, unfortunately, requires more work than merely voting.

But for the unapologetically liberal Catholics who support these things for nefarious reasons, there are plenty of known examples of Church leadership reaching out to them.

Thanks for the reply, Vonsalza. Perhaps I am looking at it too simplistically, but to me it is more of a cut and dried issue — it’s always wrong to take an innocent life and the only valid marriage in the Church should be between a man and a woman.

I was mainly looking at it from the outside looking in: On one side I see Catholic teaching unambiguously standing on the side of the unborn and traditional heterosexual marriage, while some high-profile Catholics publicly take the opposite stance in an almost “in your face” sort of manner, and I was trying to make sense of it.

I don’t seem to hear them being called out for it, unless it is happening behind the scenes in a more diplomatic manner that I am not aware of. In one case, one of these politicians allegedly performed a civil marriage ceremony between a homosexual couple.

 

[pianistclare]

Thanks for the reply, Vonsalza. Perhaps I am looking at it too simplistically, but to me it is more of a cut and dried issue — it’s always wrong to take an innocent life and the only valid marriage in the Church should be between a man and a woman.

I was mainly looking at it from the outside looking in: On one side I see Catholic teaching unambiguously standing on the side of the unborn and traditional heterosexual marriage, while some high-profile Catholics publicly take the opposite stance in an almost “in your face” sort of manner, and I was trying to make sense of it.

I don’t seem to hear them being called out on it, unless it is happening behind the scenes in a more diplomatic manner that I am not aware of.

Oh, they’re getting called out, trust me.
But they simply don’t care.
They care about votes.
Sad.

 

[Tommy999]

So what did they do with Justin the Canadian?

I’m not familiar with his story.

 

[Tommy999]

Oh, they’re getting called out, trust me.
But they simply don’t care.
They care about votes.
Sad.

Hi Clare,
Thanks for the reply. Glad to hear it is being dealt with.

A quick follow up:
Is the Church or individual priest allowed to deny them the Eucharist for their support of abortion or same-sex marriage, or is that considered inappropriate and going too far? I realize it is none of my business as a non-Catholic but I was just curious.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

IMO, and of more conservative Catholics such as Cardinal Burke, these folks should be denied Holy Communion.

If they know Church teaching and outright deny it, they are cafeteria Catholics and need to go to confession and repent. This is the case with people like John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi. They know Church teaching, they just don’t care and want to further their agenda. Woe to any informed Catholic who acts this way.

I’ve heard Kerry’s weak argument that he can’t bring his personal faith/beliefs into policy, but it doesn’t hold weight. Your faith is supposed to define you…if it doesn’t then you are a lukewarm and we know what the Lord said about those folks.

On a related note I’ve read Joe Biden’s autobiography…and he is a lifelong practicing Catholic who was pro-life when he started out in politics. And he talks about how he got the cold shoulder in D.C. when he first got there for holding this stance and was told to pick a side.(left/right) And obviously he sort of sold out for his political career.

 

[pianistclare]

Hi Clare,
Thanks for the reply. Glad to hear it is being dealt with.

A quick follow up:
Is the Church or individual priest allowed to deny them the Eucharist for their support of abortion or same-sex marriage, or is that considered inappropriate and going too far? I realize it is none of my business as a non-Catholic but I was just curious.

They are supposed to deny. But I’m afraid some believe it will cause an uproar…
You’ll get lots of responses and some blowback on this.
It’s everyone’s business, IMHO. We have to practice what we preach.

Waiting to see the other answers.
God bless you Tommy…see you on the other side!

(please post up a song on my swan song thread)

 

[Vonsalza]

I don’t seem to hear them being called out for it, unless it is happening behind the scenes in a more diplomatic manner that I am not aware of.

They have to be careful about how they do it, true enough. The issue borders somewhat on the Sacramental Seal of Confession and private correction.

Many known rebukes are referenced second-hand or from the offending party; not the priest.

 

[kozlosap]

It’s a hard issue because the “why” is extremely pertinent and rarely known.

Lot’s of Catholics might support gay marriage because the government is, by rule, a secular institution. If there is going to be such a thing as “marriage” defined by government, it can’t be beholden to any particular faith’s understanding of it. “Well, the Bible/Church says…” is correctly retorted with “Well, THIS is not a Christian theocracy, for good or bad”. If anything, government probably shouldn’t have a concept of marriage, but alas…

There may even be a few Catholics that support legal abortion on the basis that these usually poor and single twenty-something black women are going to get one anyway. It’s better that it be done in a clean and safe setting rather than at home with toxic concoctions or crude and dirty instruments. This doesn’t justify the abortion itself in any way. It’s just about the safety of the woman who is going to get it done regardless. For them, the best target for ending abortion wouldn’t be institutional, it would be the cultural mindset that thinks it’s “ok”. Which, unfortunately, requires more work than merely voting.

But for the unapologetically liberal Catholics who support these things for nefarious reasons, there are plenty of known examples of Church leadership reaching out to them.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and insightful answer to this question which is kind of similar to "the chicken or egg, which came first. Societal change is, at best, slow. The one outlier to change being slow is how the Western World has embraced the LGBTQ community. Most people have a relative or dear friend who is LGBTQ so the change came from personal experiences. So many of my family and parish friends fully support contraception, and I understand completely. If ABC helps reduce the number or abortions that are performed I’m thrilled. I was a teenager in the late 60’s and a girl in my PE class went to a back ally butcher and nearly died from sepsis. Look what has happened in Texas where real and informative sex ed was replaced completely with “abstinence only” classes - the result is catastrophic with teens having repeated pregnancies. Many people will say that, with my point of view, that I cannot be Catholic. I love the Church, the liturgy and most especially, the Eucharist. Those in the Church Hierarchy, such as Cardinal Burke, are slowly becoming much less powerful. Papa Francis is much more interested in his flock following the Lord by using the Gospels and Corporol Works of Mercy as their roadmap for life and if we all follow his example, the world will be a much better place for all humans.