History Question: Protestant stuff

[Kathie123]

I had a question. I am not a historian, AT ALL, so bear with me. At the time Martin Luther started the Protestant movement (for lack of a better term), how many Catholics worldwide were affected? By this I mean, how far had the Church spread?

(I’m concerned that maybe my schooling in a European-o-centric way has led me to think of the Protestestant movement as a huge deal, surely something that crushed the Church, when maybe it was just one lousy continent that went a little haywire, not to diminish the effects of this era in world history.

I do hope this was clear and I look forward to your answers should you choose to do so.

 

[Jermosh]

I had a question. I am not a historian, AT ALL, so bear with me. At the time Martin Luther started the Protestant movement (for lack of a better term), how many Catholics worldwide were affected? By this I mean, how far had the Church spread?

(I’m concerned that maybe my schooling in a European-o-centric way has led me to think of the Protestestant movement as a huge deal, surely something that crushed the Church, when maybe it was just one lousy continent that went a little haywire, not to diminish the effects of this era in world history.

I do hope this was clear and I look forward to your answers should you choose to do so.

It was mainly in Europe but did not reach that much into Spain or Italy, Ireland, sorta France. England is a different story in that they really kept being Catholic but with no pope, the puritan movement were mostly against the CoE not the Catholic Church although they had no love for them either. For the Americas, Spain was the early developer and most of the south from Florida down were Catholic and still are, Chesapeake was a mixture since it involved Scots and Irish, New England was a puritan colony and had some of the most strict civil laws based on religious tenets ever seen. Early Catholics in New England were not welcomed much and most migrated to Rhode Island with became a King mandated multi-faith experiment after the horrific death of Mary Dyer.

You also had groups that were against the puritans even further such as the Quakers, Baptist, and some anabaptists. Also Catholic missionaries were pretty successful with native Americans since they allowed the natives to keep cultural norms and traditions, and they were receptive that Catholic theology is not nearly as patriarchal as the puritan theology was. They also had a special attraction to St Mary.

 

[Drawmack]

I had a question. I am not a historian, AT ALL, so bear with me. At the time Martin Luther started the Protestant movement (for lack of a better term), how many Catholics worldwide were affected? By this I mean, how far had the Church spread?

(I’m concerned that maybe my schooling in a European-o-centric way has led me to think of the Protestestant movement as a huge deal, surely something that crushed the Church, when maybe it was just one lousy continent that went a little haywire, not to diminish the effects of this era in world history.

I do hope this was clear and I look forward to your answers should you choose to do so.

Luther did not start the Protestant movement; Luther started the Lutheran movement. Protestant is the term created to lump Luther, Calvin, Zwiglie, and King Henry all into one pile instead of keeping them separate.

Luther really only affected Catholics in Germany for the first years of his schism with Rome.

 

[Drawmack]

You also had groups that were against the puritans even further such as the Quakers, Baptist, and some anabaptists. Also Catholic missionaries were pretty successful with native Americans since they allowed the natives to keep cultural norms and traditions, and they were receptive that Catholic theology is not nearly as patriarchal as the puritan theology was. They also had a special attraction to St Mary.

While Quaker theology was diametrically opposed to Catholic theology the Quakers themselves were and are pacifists and therefore did not bother the Catholics or anyone else… That’s why there is a huge Catholic population in PA (you know the Quaker State) today. In my part of the state Catholicism is the predominant religion.

 

[Jermosh]

While Quaker theology was diametrically opposed to Catholic theology the Quakers themselves were and are pacifists and therefore did not bother the Catholics or anyone else… That’s why there is a huge Catholic population in PA (you know the Quaker State) today. In my part of the state Catholicism is the predominant religion.

Quakers were not pacifists, they were pacifistic, they do not believe in even the most remote form of Violence, but they felt political activism was important. While they had fundamental issues with Catholicism, they actually got along very well with Catholics and helped each other during early religious persecution like Rhode Island and in PA, most of the historical run-ins were with the puritan faiths, being that both came from England also has the reason. They later had issues with southern faiths(Methodist, Baptist) and were “pushed” out of towns because of their public announcement against slavery.

Quakers were also and still are staunch activists, almost every civil right movement in the US has some budding from Quakers. Mary Dyer was wildly known as one as a strong defender for religious freedom, she was a friend of Ann Hutchinson and hanged because of her activism in Mass, the outcry of her death eventually led to the “Bill of Rights”. Lucretia Mott is known as one of 1st Feminist and a wildy seen abolitionist, she hep found and run the American Equal Rights Association. Benjamin Lay was a staunch activist and fought tooth and nail with his fellow Quakers on slavery, although his acts were slightly comical they were pretty stern. The Underground Railroad was heavily funded and ran by Quaker groups as well. They were heavily depicted in “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” as a good faith who helped friend and foe alike, this book is thought to be one of the main instigators of the Civil War, which Quakers were highly against.

Of course Quakers are not the only ones who helped in Civil rights in America and certainly not the world like Catholics have. But with their size and acts of non-violence they are quite inspiring. As for their faith, I think it has some wonderful theology, but its almost the complete opposite of Catholicism on the outside, but on the inner I think its quite aligned.

 

[Petergee]

By Luther’s time the Church had spread very far, to every continent except Australia. e.g. she had been in China for centuries and in India since Apostolic times. But because of the Eastern Orthodox split and the depredations of Moslem invaders, most of the remaining Catholics were in Europe. About a quarter of the previously Catholic population of Europe became Protestant (nearly all of them being forced to do so by their governments). But a few decades earlier, Catholic countries had discovered the New World and were busy winning millions of converts who more than made up for the losses to protestantism. (Of course even one soul being lost is a disaster and it cannot be truly replaced.) Especially as the protestants were generally very reluctant to engage in missionary work beyond Europe until the 19th century.

Many have seen God’s providence in this “coincidence”. Especially as Christopher Columbus had asked many European monarchs to sponsor his trip which discovered the New World. King Henry VII of England agreed to do so, but he was just a few weeks too late - after years of delay Spain had already agreed to sponsor Columbus.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Luther did not start the Protestant movement; Luther started the Lutheran movement. Protestant is the term created to lump Luther, Calvin, Zwiglie, and King Henry all into one pile instead of keeping them separate.

Luther really only affected Catholics in Germany for the first years of his schism with Rome.

I think I can agree with all you say here. But the real “zeitgeist” (Spirit of the Age) of protest and rebellion against the Church really gets its head of steam a century earlier in Czech Lands with Jan Hus (1369–1415) and the Hussites. Ironically the Hussites wanted to reform the church from what they felt were corruption but in someways wanted more strictness (e.g. physical punishment for serious sins and the right to receive both species of Eucharist - since the precious blood for practical reasons was reserved for only the clergy to prevent spillage etc.). The Hussites were in favor of keeping the ecclesial structure in place but they wanted a complete separation of church from secular society. As well, this is where sola scriptura first starts to really raise its head as the Hussites wanted the freedom for individuals to interpret the bible for themselves and also the freedom for the laity to preach the word. They wanted secular judges to resolve interpretations of scripture It was completely irrational but it has a lot of Protestant look and feel to it in its secularization of Church and sola scriptura personal freedom aspects.

James