Holding hands in mass:Our Father?

[lax16]

I don’t like it when individual families decide to hold hand with each other during the Our Father at Mass. To me this comes across as a type of seperatism and identification as themselves as a specific unit to the exclusion of others present.

At Mass we are there in communion with all persons present, not just with our own individual family unit. At Mass we are all one family, God’s family. Individual human families should not behave in an introspective manner regarding communal worship that excludes other around them. To me individual familes holding hands amongst themselves during the Our Father is a bit like give the sign of peace only to members of your own human fanily.

That said I don’t think we should be holding hands at all during the Our Father. During the Our Father we ask for forgiveness for our sins, it is not a prayer of joyous celebration. I also don’t like individual parishioners havinf their hands in the Orans position, and believe this should be reserved for the priest. Hands held in an unobtrusive, reverential position, along with a thoughtful penitential demeanour is how I think we should be encouraged to stand during the Our Father.

On another note, I live in England where most people do not hold hands during the Our Father (although the Orans position of hands is creeping in) but I have noticed that many of the people who do hold hands are indeed American. Is this practice widespread in the USA?

Totally agree.

And yes, it has been in every parish I have ever attended. In several different states.

 

[catholicanne]

I sometimes attend Mass at a traditional parish that I enjoy very much. There is no hand holding nor is there the sign of peace. At the church I work at, on the other hand, there is insane amounts of hand holding. The priest leads everyone in the hand holding. People cross the aisles, hold hands with people behind or in front of them, twist their arms into strange shapes to hold hands of people who walk in halfway through the Our Father, etc. It really does look like one giant game of Twister. Same as with the sign of peace. It becomes a 5 minute time to socialize. It’s sort of a game to see how many hands you can shake in 5 minutes. People walk all over the church, laugh and talk, slap each other on the back, and the priest does the same thing. I’m all for socializing but isn’t that what coffee and donut time after Mass is for?

 

[pnewton]

Ah, this again. I wish I was where I could link youtube. One of the best explainations I have ever heard on this came from Cardinal Arinze. He said if you want to hold hands, okay. If you don’t want to hold hands, okay. What you can not do is promulgate any posture that is not in the General Instruction. So pushing it, either church-wide or even being pushy to your neighbor, is not aceptable.

 

[Brendan_64]

People walk all over the church, laugh and talk, slap each other on the back, and the priest does the same thing.

Dear, oh dear. Back-slapping, laughing, talking

I do believe we really should get back to the notion of a universal Catholic church. Every parish and church should be a ‘traditional’ church. The experience of the Mass should be the same in every church you walk into, not just throughout the country, but throughout the world. The buildings might be different, some might have choirs, some might not, and the homily will be different, but the actual Liturgy and its mechanics should be the same.

 

[lax16]

Dear, oh dear. Back-slapping, laughing, talking

I do believe we really should get back to the notion of a universal Catholic church. Every parish and church should be a ‘traditional’ church. The experience of the Mass should be the same in every church you walk into, not just throughout the country, but throughout the world. The buildings might be different, some might have choirs, some might not, and the homily will be different, but the actual Liturgy and its mechanics should be the same.

Amen.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I sometimes attend Mass at a traditional parish that I enjoy very much. There is no hand holding nor is there the sign of peace. At the church I work at, on the other hand, there is insane amounts of hand holding. The priest leads everyone in the hand holding. People cross the aisles, hold hands with people behind or in front of them, twist their arms into strange shapes to hold hands of people who walk in halfway through the Our Father, etc. It really does look like one giant game of Twister. Same as with the sign of peace. It becomes a 5 minute time to socialize. It’s sort of a game to see how many hands you can shake in 5 minutes. People walk all over the church, laugh and talk, slap each other on the back, and the priest does the same thing. I’m all for socializing but isn’t that what coffee and donut time after Mass is for?

We have hand holding at Mass at our parish…but our priest stays put for the sign of peace. And so does everyone else. What is hard about that?

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I really wish people would stop playing Twister during the Our Father!

 

[ProLifeMommy]

As a general principle, the Roman Missal (the Mass book) and other church documents on the liturgy are prescriptive. In other words, they tell us what to do. What that means is, if it is not mentioned, it is not part of the Mass. We ought not to think of the Mass instructions as “if it doesn’t forbid it, its permitted.” If that were true, there would be an infinite number of things that we could be doing in the pews during Mass since the Missal does not go through some exhaustive listing of prohibited practices.

Think about holding hands at Mass like this: It is not mentioned in the Missal as an approved posture during Mass, therefore it is not a posture during Mass. In fact, the missal makes no mention of any hand posture of the laity during Mass. Therefore, no special hand posture is prescribed. Certainly hand holding is an extraordinary posture compared to keeping your hands together or keeping them at your side. So, with no extraordinary hand posture prescribed, merely use the typical hand posture that is ordinarily used while standing.

Hand holding has popularity because people believe it emphasizes the concept of “one family” and community/fellowship. That is a nice sentiment but the questtion is: At Mass, are we being asked to interject our interpretation on the nature of the Church or the People of God? In all humility we must answer, no. It is not out place to interject an innovation to match our particular outlook. Furthermore, a multiplicity of postures at the very time that we are trying to manifest unity is a contradiction in itself.

To be perfectly candid: Hand holding during the Our Father is an import from protestant worship services. It has no pedigree in the Mass. It most likely is not an approved posture because it may cause confusion regarding to whom the prayer is addressed. Remember, when we say the Our Father the consecration is complete and our Lord is laying on the altar. Why not focus on Him since Jesus is our only way to the Father. We can not approach the Father in any other way.

One final point: When we die and receive our particular judgement (whereby we are admitted into Heaven or are left to ourselves in Hell) we will be holding no one’s hand. We stand alone in that judgement. In the Our Father, when we ask the Father to forgive us our trespass, it is a personal transgression we speak of, not a communal one.

 

[Brendan_64]

What that means is, if it is not mentioned, it is not part of the Mass. We ought not to think of the Mass instructions as “if it doesn’t forbid it, its permitted.”

I totally agree.

We should not just, as individuals or communities, decide to do things just because they ‘feel right’. or because they see like a nice thing to do.

Holding hands, members of the congregation holding their hands in the Orans position. What next? Waving your hands high in the air and looking up to the ceiling like we see at Pentecostalist services?

The Liturgy should be the Liturgy. We serve the Liturgy, the Liturgy does not serve us.

To be perfectly candid: Hand holding during the Our Father is an import from protestant worship services.

Indeed it is.

I respect our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ, and I respect how they choose to worship, but we are Roman Catholics and the form of our Liturgy is set by Rome.

There should be consistency in what we do, and the form and appearance of what happens in Mass should be the same no matter what Catholic church we happen to walk into, not just within our diocese, but anywhere in the world. If we all start to do our own thing because it ‘feels right’ to us we are stepping on a path that could leads unltimately to separation.

 

[pnewton]

If that were true, there would be an infinite number of things that we could be doing in the pews during Mass since the Missal does not go through some exhaustive listing of prohibited practices.

By the same logic, if can not give the positions of the hands, feet, eyes, tongues, throughout the liturgy. By the same logic, bowing the head is not allowable. Folding ones hands in the communion line is not allowable.

 

[Brendan_64]

By the same logic, if can not give the positions of the hands, feet, eyes, tongues, throughout the liturgy. By the same logic, bowing the head is not allowable. Folding ones hands in the communion line is not allowable.

Not quite. The fact that no position is stated implies that no extraordinary position should be taken, other than a normal, reverential bodily posture. The practice of holding hands goes beyond this and is in fact an extraordinary position. Should we all start dancing for joy during the Alleluia? It doesn’t say anywhere that we shouldn’t? Or, if the church is fairly empty, should I sit with my feet up on the pew if there’s nobody sitting next to me? There’s nothing written down that says I shouldn’t do this.

 

[pnewton]

Not quite. The fact that no position is stated implies that no extraordinary position should be taken, other than a normal, reverential bodily posture. The practice of holding hands goes beyond this and is in fact an extraordinary position.

But that inserts the word “extraordinary”. No where in the GIRM is this distinction made that you make. Even if it did, extraordinary (the way it is being used here), is a matter of opinion.

I really like what Cardinal Arinze said. It really is not a significant issue either way as long as it is not promoted. It allows the traditional method of change through the Holy Spirit moving throughout the Church. That’s even the way saints once were chosen.

 

[Hmgbrd]

I totally agree.

We should not just, as individuals or communities, decide to do things just because they ‘feel right’. or because they see like a nice thing to do.

Holding hands, members of the congregation holding their hands in the Orans position. What next? Waving your hands high in the air and looking up to the ceiling like we see at Pentecostalist services?

The Liturgy should be the Liturgy. We serve the Liturgy, the Liturgy does not serve us.

Indeed it is.

I respect our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ, and I respect how they choose to worship, but we are Roman Catholics and the form of our Liturgy is set by Rome.

There should be consistency in what we do, and the form and appearance of what happens in Mass should be the same no matter what Catholic church we happen to walk into, not just within our diocese, but anywhere in the world. If we all start to do our own thing because it ‘feels right’ to us we are stepping on a path that could leads unltimately to separation.

Amen

 

[CB_Catholic]

As a general principle, the Roman Missal (the Mass book) and other church documents on the liturgy are prescriptive. In other words, they tell us what to do. What that means is, if it is not mentioned, it is not part of the Mass. We ought not to think of the Mass instructions as “if it doesn’t forbid it, its permitted.” If that were true, there would be an infinite number of things that we could be doing in the pews during Mass since the Missal does not go through some exhaustive listing of prohibited practices.

Think about holding hands at Mass like this: It is not mentioned in the Missal as an approved posture during Mass, therefore it is not a posture during Mass. In fact, the missal makes no mention of any hand posture of the laity during Mass. Therefore, no special hand posture is prescribed. Certainly hand holding is an extraordinary posture compared to keeping your hands together or keeping them at your side. So, with no extraordinary hand posture prescribed, merely use the typical hand posture that is ordinarily used while standing.

Hand holding has popularity because people believe it emphasizes the concept of “one family” and community/fellowship. That is a nice sentiment but the questtion is: At Mass, are we being asked to interject our interpretation on the nature of the Church or the People of God? In all humility we must answer, no. It is not out place to interject an innovation to match our particular outlook. Furthermore, a multiplicity of postures at the very time that we are trying to manifest unity is a contradiction in itself.

To be perfectly candid: Hand holding during the Our Father is an import from protestant worship services. It has no pedigree in the Mass. It most likely is not an approved posture because it may cause confusion regarding to whom the prayer is addressed. Remember, when we say the Our Father the consecration is complete and our Lord is laying on the altar. Why not focus on Him since Jesus is our only way to the Father. We can not approach the Father in any other way.

One final point: When we die and receive our particular judgement (whereby we are admitted into Heaven or are left to ourselves in Hell) we will be holding no one’s hand. We stand alone in that judgement. In the Our Father, when we ask the Father to forgive us our trespass, it is a personal transgression we speak of, not a communal one.

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but there is no confusion caused as to whom the prayer is addressed, considering the first words are “Our Father”…I highly doubt that people are so ignorant that they think they addressing the priest. I am not a fan of holding hands and I don’t usually do it, but this is an argument that is not going to convince people.

I really think that this is a very minor thing that can be blown up way out of proportion to it’s actual importance, and can easily become a source of misunderstanding and unnecessary argument and tension. There is in reality no set “rule” about it, even if we can come up with what we think are logical arguments against the practice, it is not actually forbidden. There are far, far worse things, actual abuses, that can occur and other things of importance that could be discussed on these forums other than people holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer. It is not a sinful thing, mostly just annoying to those who don’t like it. And the subject has been beat to death.

 

[Reuben_J]

My main objection to the holding of hands is that it is imposing (on the person sitting next to us who may not want the practice). Then it can become an issue that we want to avoid. Those who hold onto the GIRM strictly would find it has no place too during the Our Father. Other than that it should not be a problem, I guess. People with the same understanding and wanting to do it, why not?

 

[Aran_Houlihan]

I hater like holding hands during the Pater Noster it to happy clappy for me it’s best to humbly obey the rubrics and GIRM and refrain from introducing anything into the celebration of the Sacraments. I’m not legalistic, I just trust the Magesterium in all things and try to understand as best as I am able. So in the question of holding hands or mimicing the priest by raising our hands, I am opposed. I fold my hands together in prayer.

In nomine Patris, + et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
Introibo ad altare Dei. R: Ad deum qui laetificat juventutem meam.