Holy Communion question

[babochka]

Hello SighGuy,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. In retrospect, I regret the choice of words, “What difference does it make” because I realize how strongly Catholics feel about the sacrament of the Eucharist. No disrespect intended to anyone and I apologize if that is how it was interpreted. I was just trying to be clever with a Hillary Clinton quote.

I realize very much that Christ wants to have an intimate relationship with us. In fact, I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior several years ago and strive to live for Him daily in my thoughts and deeds. I still believe it is more important to have an ongoing personal relationship with Christ and believe that the bread and juice are a symbolic representation of His body and blood than to believe that the bread and wine turn into the real body and blood of Christ during church service only to live the rest fo the week like God doesn’t exist or play a significant role in my life.

The phrase “personal relationship with Jesus” is not found in the Bible, therefore there is no clear definition of what exactly that means. As Catholics, we believe the sacraments are personal, intimate encounters with Christ himself. It is the basis for the rest of our personal relationship with him. If we’re living our faith well, we go forth from the Eucharistic encounter with Christ on Sunday and carry him to the whole world. We don’t tend to speak in terms of “personal relationship” so much as we do of Christ’s life within us. We seek complete union with Christ, to become one with him. This process begins with our baptism, continues in us through the reception of the other sacraments and through our prayer and living a Christian life, and is ultimately our understanding of heaven: union with Christ. We believe St. Paul’s words to the Galations: “All you who have been baptized into Christ have been clothed with Christ.” Jesus tells us that he is the true vine and that we are to abide in him. This isn’t so much a two-way relationship as understood in human terms as an intimate joining of our lives to God. How do we abide in him? In John 6, he tells us that we have no life in us if we do not eat his flesh and drink his blood.

The First Principle and Foundation
(St. Ignatius of Loyola, as paraphrased by David L. Fleming, S.J.)

   St. Ignatius begins his *Spiritual Exercises* with *The First Principle and Foundation*.  While not typically thought of as a prayer, it still contains much that is worth reflecting on. The Goal of our life is to live with God forever.

God, who loves us, gave us life.
Our own response of love allows God’s life
to flow into us without limit.

All the things in this world are gifts from God,
Presented to us so that we can know God more easily
and make a return of love more readily.
As a result, we appreciate and use all these gifts of God
Insofar as they help us to develop as loving persons.
But if any of these gifts become the center of our lives,
They displace God
And so hinder our growth toward our goal.

In everyday life, then, we must hold ourselves in balance
Before all of these created gifts insofar as we have a choice
And are not bound by some obligation.
We should not fix our desires on health or sickness,
Wealth or poverty, success or failure, a long life or a short one.
For everything has the potential of calling forth in us
A deeper response to our life in God.

Our only desire and our one choice should be this:
I want and I choose what better leads
To God’s deepening his life in me.

 

[Tommy999]

Hi babochka,
By “personal relationship” with Christ, I mean that I accepted Him as Lord and Savor of my life by admitting that I was a sinner in need of a Savor, believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God through whom all who are saved must be saved, and by confessing my sins to God and receiving His forgiveness. This personal relationship with Jesus has outward manifestations such as living a godly life with God’s help and by seeking out mentors in the faith to help me grow in the things of Christ that lead me to a deeper and more meaningful relationship with God. That’s how I would explain it, to the best of my ability.

 

[andrewstx]

I am a member of an Assembly of God church. We have a great pastor who always has strong biblical sermons that frequently deal with with personal application of scripture to our daily lives about allowing God to break down strongholds that keep Christians from living godly lives and keeping us from becoming all we can be in Christ. The only part I feel I am missing is that sometimes I feel the need to confess my sins to someone in spiritual authority in addition to God himself. Only Catholics seem to have a process and sacrament built-in for that – that I am aware of. Sure, I could go to my pastor, but he would think I was weird if I did that each week. In my church, only people with serious problems tend to go to the pastor for counseling.

Once again Catholics are not the only ones with confession. I am Eastern Orthodox and I confess every time I receive Jesus in Holy Communion. Anglicans and Lutherans have private confession as well, but you have to request it.

Catholics and Orthodox require you to join their church. But you could ask an Episcopal priest or Lutheran pastor to hear your confession.

It might not seem that way, but I am really trying to help.

 

[chimo]

Hello everyone,
I’m a Protestant who desires to better understand why Catholics stress the importance of the bread and wine actually becoming the body and blood of Christ during Holy Communion. I realize it is a core belief of Catholicism and I respect it as such. However, as a famous politician on an unrelated subject once said, “What difference does it make?”

In my church, we celebrate Holy Communion about once a month and on special occasions like Christmas Eve and Easter, but not every Sunday. It is viewed as an ordinance that the faithful do to remember Christ’s atoning sacrifice on the cross for our sins and is an expression of our faith and obedience to Christ, who said “Do this is remembrance of Me”. Anyone who professes that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior of any Christian denomination is welcome to partake in our church if they so desire, but it is not forced on anyone.

Maybe I’m weird, but I view it as more important for the presence of Christ to reside in my heart and spirit on an ongoing basis and strive to live for Him daily than to argue over whether the bread and wine actually turn into the actual body and blood of Christ during Holy Communion or not. Please explain why this concept is so critical to Catholics.

I sense it is very difficult for Protestants to understand why the Catholic and Eastern Churches rely very much to the Mass and the Divine Liturgy in bringing to us a living encounter with the Lord Jesus. Very simply for us it is to help us in our spiritual growth into sanctity. In other words something actually happens with this encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ. To put it simply when we receive the Lord Jesus in the Mass and the Divine Liturgy we receive not only the Lord Jesus but Jesus also deposits in us another increase portion of the Holy Spirit. This extra deposit of the Holy Spirit actually increases our level of sanctity within us. It is like you are receiving another Baptism but smaller in its acquisition than you had received in your actual Baptism. To give you a more simpler understanding I would say at your Baptism the amount of sanctity you receive and at Confirmation are only partial deposits. You would still need more deposits so that your level of sanctity of the Holy Spirit will be able to reach to a level of Fullness. These other deposits to be able to reach to the Fullness which God desires in us are to be acquired especially at the Mass and the Divine Liturgy.

We all need to grow into that Fullness which requires time, participation into the Sacraments and our willingness to work with what God has given to us. We are not to receive these Deposits and not do anything between our receptions of the Sunday’s Holy Communions. We are called by God to work with these Deposits of Grace by enlarging them when we will offer some work and devotion between our Holy Communions. That is why Jesus said in the Gospels “trade till I come” meaning we are to receive these great investments of the Holy Spirit to help enlarge them by working out some mercy either through prayers, words and deeds. God gives us an incredible investment at every Mass and Divine Liturgy and as this is His work for us we need to take these investments and give out some of our own work. The two are necessary if God’s Graces are to be multiplied into the world.

The Orthodox, Catholic and Eastern Christians sees in the bread and wine once it is changed into the Lord Jesus Christ another opportunity to enlarge this great investment of His Mercy by taking it into the world when we also by prayer, or by words, or by deed we are exercising some mercy to our neighbor. When in the parable the King said why didn’t you put my money in the bank so as to earn interest before I come for this person had decided to hide the money instead this refers to the easiest way of enlarging any investment of Holy Communion which is to pray during the week. We are actually hiding the “money” or “investment” of God when we will not offer any kind of act of mercy during the week. God expects us to do something with it. So even though the Catholic and Orthodox believes in the actual presence of our Lord in the Holy Communion it is even more required of us to work with it during the week before each Holy Communion.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

Just out of curiosity are you Eastern Orthodox Catholic ?

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

I noticed that you did not answer , any reason ?

If your Easter Orthodox not under Rome just say so, that would be why sometimes the answers are slightly different from the Catholic teaching .

 

[Tommy999]

Thanks again to all who replied to this post. I appreciate you and your willingness to share your faith in patience and understanding while helping this Protestant lad correct some of the misconceptions I had developed over the years about the Catholic Church and to better understand the sacraments and their true purpose. Growing up, I was never taught that the Cathoilc Church was bad. The subject never really came up much at all within my family or church so it left a void in my mind that I recently decided to pursue after I came across Catholic radio and the Catholic Answers program, which I like a lot.

Thanks again to everyone, especially those Catholics who replied with kindness and understanding. I also am including Eastern Orthodox believers like andrewstx. May God richly bless you all. Until next time, I remain your friend in Christ.

PT (Protestant Tommy)

 

[chefmomster2]

Just out of curiosity are you Eastern Orthodox Catholic ?

See post #20. Assembly of God.

 

[chefmomster2]

See post #20. Assembly of Christ.

 

[chefmomster2]

I noticed that you did not answer , any reason ?

If your Easter Orthodox not under Rome just say so, that would be why sometimes the answers are slightly different from the Catholic teaching .

He already answered the question several posts back. See post #20. Assembly of Christ.

 

[chefmomster2]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[andrewstx]

I am a member of an Assembly of God church. We have a great pastor who always has strong biblical sermons that frequently deal with with personal application of scripture to our daily lives about allowing God to break down strongholds that keep Christians from living godly lives and keeping us from becoming all we can be in Christ. The only part I feel I am missing is that sometimes I feel the need to confess my sins to someone in spiritual authority in addition to God himself. Only Catholics seem to have a process and sacrament built-in for that – that I am aware of. Sure, I could go to my pastor, but he would think I was weird if I did that each week. In my church, only people with serious problems tend to go to the pastor for counseling.

Tommy you should send a message to Itwin, he too belongs to an AOG church in South Carolina and probably would more helpful than I could ever be.

 

[andrewstx]

Why all the fuss about me? There is no Eastern Catholic church closer than 500 miles, if there were I would belong to it. The closest Orthodox church is 45 miles away and I can’t drive due to a stroke.

I was originally Latin Catholic and would still be if there were a TLM available.

So I am an Orthodox Christian going to a Latin Catholic church from necessity.

Any other questions?? :sad_yes::sad_yes::sad_yes:

 

[jmcrae]

I am a member of an Assembly of God church. We have a great pastor who always has strong biblical sermons that frequently deal with with personal application of scripture to our daily lives about allowing God to break down strongholds that keep Christians from living godly lives and keeping us from becoming all we can be in Christ. The only part I feel I am missing is that sometimes I feel the need to confess my sins to someone in spiritual authority in addition to God himself. Only Catholics seem to have a process and sacrament built-in for that – that I am aware of. Sure, I could go to my pastor, but he would think I was weird if I did that each week. In my church, only people with serious problems tend to go to the pastor for counseling.

Catholic priests have the authority to hear the Confessions of Catholics, and offer them Absolution for their sins (the forgiveness of Christ on the Cross).

The Sacrament of Reconciliation is typically not a kind of counseling, although often enough, counseling is also part of the experience, especially if the priest has time to give it. The Sacrament itself though is all about the forgiveness of your sins, and whatever advice you might need to keep from committing the same sins again.

You can also go to a priest for counseling and for Spiritual Direction, separately from the Sacrament of Reconciliation - and non-Catholics can also do this.