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SacredHeartFan
Guest
Not sure if this is where to put this.
Could the Holy Grail myth be true, why or why not?
Could the Holy Grail myth be true, why or why not?
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thistle
Guest
Its a MYTH!!
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Spirithound
Guest
I suppose that depends on what you mean by the Holy Grail myth…
Certainly our Lord did use a particular cup at the Last Supper, but whether that chalice has survived to this present day is not in my area of knowledge. I’m sure it’s possible.
Of course, if you’re referring to the DaVinci Code, my default note on that is: fiction.
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NPC
Guest
I think that if you take the more common meaning of the ‘Holy Grail’ - i.e. the cup which was used at the Last Supper - the main problem/question is how likely is it that the the cup could have survived for two thousand years. Most people imagine that the cup was like some precious gold chalice encrusted with jewels, but (while I’m no historian!) this is highly unlikely. The disciples went to prepare the room for the Passover feast - they were not thinking (nor did they know) that it was going to be a feast at which the cup would hold the blood of Christ. Even if they did know this, it would have been almost impossible for ordinary people of the Roman Empire to acquire precious gold chalices at short notice! From documentaries I’ve seen on this topic, it seems more probable that the ‘grail’ was of clay or perhaps a wooden bowl. If this is so, and if the cup Christ used was essentially the same as everyone else’s, the likelihood of it surviving intact is quite slim - it is probably because the cup was so ordinary that there are so many people in the world who claim to possess the Holy Grail: it could be anything! Also, from the apostles’ point of view, they had just been given the power to change bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ - I doubt that a simple cup would have been the centre of attention at that moment.
As for Mr Brown’s assertion that the Holy Grail is Mary Magdalene, I belive this to be utter rubbish - it is a claim that has been disproved by many historians & documentaries. Very few take it seriously, although undoubtedly it caused quite a stir. As I see it, Christ came into the world for a reason, and He knew why He had come in to the world. He came into the world for our sake - why would He have wanted to create a ‘royal bloodline’ here on earth when He said himself that His kingdom was not of this world? -Not to mention that He has remained with us always by giving His own body to us in the Eucharist.
As for Mr Brown’s assertion that the Holy Grail is Mary Magdalene, I belive this to be utter rubbish - it is a claim that has been disproved by many historians & documentaries. Very few take it seriously, although undoubtedly it caused quite a stir. As I see it, Christ came into the world for a reason, and He knew why He had come in to the world. He came into the world for our sake - why would He have wanted to create a ‘royal bloodline’ here on earth when He said himself that His kingdom was not of this world? -Not to mention that He has remained with us always by giving His own body to us in the Eucharist.
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brotherhrolf
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I am not even going to discuss Mr. Brown. However, as a one time archaeologist, pottery vessels as well as wooden vessels can survive for thousands of years. As an artifact, it is entirely possible for the Grail to have survived.
However, of which Grail are we speaking? The one that Joseph of Arimathea brought to Britain after the crucifixion? The grail of the early medieval historians? The black cauldron of the Celts? The grail of the Arthurian cycle? The “grails” in certain churches in Spain and Italy?
Or are we talking about our own quests for holiness? Is not the quest for the Holy Grail a metaphor for our own quests for salvation. St. Paul said that he was redeemed but his salvation he was working out with fear and trembling. Is that not the quest for the Holy Grail in the truest sense?
However, of which Grail are we speaking? The one that Joseph of Arimathea brought to Britain after the crucifixion? The grail of the early medieval historians? The black cauldron of the Celts? The grail of the Arthurian cycle? The “grails” in certain churches in Spain and Italy?
Or are we talking about our own quests for holiness? Is not the quest for the Holy Grail a metaphor for our own quests for salvation. St. Paul said that he was redeemed but his salvation he was working out with fear and trembling. Is that not the quest for the Holy Grail in the truest sense?
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SacredHeartFan
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I am talking about the grail that Joseph of Arimathia took from the last supper and then caught the blood of Christ in at the crucifixion. Aren’t we supposed to hold to the traditions of our elders?
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brotherhrolf
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SHF, I am by no means a Grail expert but I have read all of the stories of the Holy Grail since I was your age. Joseph of Arimathea was but the beginning of the Christian story. There exists a pre-courser in the Welsh Mabinogion - Disney did a terrible job in the cartoon “Black Cauldron” but Lloyd Alexander wrote a brilliant series of novels way back when:
Here’s the first:
amazon.com/Book-Three-Chronicles-Prydain/dp/0805080481/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210715396&sr=1-1
I thought they had a 3 volume set but I was wrong so there are two more after this.
And then there is Evangeline Walton:
amazon.com/Mabinogion-Tetralogy-Evangeline-Walton/dp/1585675040/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210715566&sr=1-1
There is a huge Celtic undercurrent in discussing the Grail and it cannot be ignored. Joseph of Arimithea came to Britain…to be precise Glastonbury Tor - Why? Some would argue that Joseph was involved in the tin trade and that Our Lord accompanied his uncle on at least one of his trading ventures when he was a child.
But Glastonbury is an Anglo-Saxon name and my patron saint, St. Dunstan, was abbot of the abbey there before he became archbishop of Canterbury before 1000 AD. The Grail legend was well established by then.
And then comes the medieval period. The Grail legend flourishes long before the Arthurians get ahold of it.
Is there a possiblity that the cup of Our Lord exists? I’d say yes. The Ark of the Covenant may exist:
foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355264,00.html That’s from today.
But you couldn’t convince me to touch either…Domine, non sum dignus…Lord I am not worthy. I have always viewed the Grail Quest as a quest to purify oneself to be ready for the sacred mysteries.
PM me SHF and I’ll send you a list of books to read. Books that I read when I was your age.
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SacredHeartFan
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SO I’m guessing that if you think Disney is off then you definatly think that Monty Python is off!
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bpbasilphx
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I am talking about the grail that Joseph of Arimathia took from the last supper and then caught the blood of Christ in at the crucifixion.
Every chalice used at every Eucharistic Sacrifice in the world IS the Holy Grail, as it contains the identical Blood of Christ.
Every chalice used at every Eucharistic Sacrifice in the world IS the Holy Grail, as it contains the identical Blood of Christ.
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SacredHeartFan
Guest
I know this but I’m talking about the one that was supposidly used at the last supper
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