Homosexual Clergy in East vs. West

[Biedrik]

How exactly are these surveys done? I can’t imagine many priests openly admitting to being gay. I don’t know how it is elsewhere, but around here if a priest or seminarian admitted to such a thing there would be quite a bit of commotion.

 

[5Loaves]

In fact, a number of surveys HAVE been done of Latin Rite Catholic Priests in Europe and North America, and the number os admitted homosexual Priests far exceeds the percentage in regular society. In the United States, several surveys have shown that between 60 and 80 % of the Priests ordained between 1975 and 1990 were homosexual in orientation.

I’m sure I’m not the only one who would like the sources for this. Please provide.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

Surveys are done by printed surveys, that have no identifying factors at all. They are prepared by statisticians, with (name removed by moderator)ut from other experts, and written up. They are distributed among the graduates of various seminaries, the surveys are generally mailed in, but sometimes are collected in person. The survey, if collected "on-the-spot, would be sealed, so that the person collecting them can not read them, or in any way determine which individual answered it.

Or, to put it simply, they are done blindly.

 

[5Loaves]

Surveys are done by printed surveys, that have no identifying factors at all. They are prepared by statisticians, with (name removed by moderator)ut from other experts, and written up. They are distributed among the graduates of various seminaries, the surveys are generally mailed in, but sometimes are collected in person. The survey, if collected "on-the-spot, would be sealed, so that the person collecting them can not read them, or in any way determine which individual answered it.

Or, to put it simply, they are done blindly.

You’ve misunderstood me. I’m asking where were these studies published so we can see the primary sources for ourselves and evaluate their research methods. How large was the sample? What was the return rate? What exactly were the questions? How were they administered? What was the size of the control group? etc… That’s how one evaluates whether or not there’s any credence in the “findings”. In the absence of that information you may as well say “I’ve heard that…”, “People say that…”.

Biedrik asks this as well.

How exactly are these surveys done?

 

[MontChevalier]

What I want to know is:

If there WAS a survey on how many catholic priests are homosexuals but never act on it, exactly how would we know if the numbers are indeed correct? They may not consider themselves homosexuals at all; since priests do have to abstain from intercourse.

-MontChevalier

 

[meltzerboy]

What I want to know is:

If there WAS a survey on how many catholic priests are homosexuals but never act on it, exactly how would we know if the numbers are indeed correct? They may not consider themselves homosexuals at all; since priests do have to abstain from intercourse.

-MontChevalier

I think the questions asked would have to be divided among same-sex attraction questions and active homosexual behavior questions. You still have a good point, however, in that someone who has had only one or two gay encounters may not consider himself gay, and may in fact not be. Some may also label themselves bisexual and primarily heterosexual. The questions would have to account for all these conditions.

 

[meltzerboy]

You’ve misunderstood me. I’m asking where were these studies published so we can see the primary sources for ourselves and evaluate their research methods. How large was the sample? What was the return rate? What exactly were the questions? How were they administered? What was the size of the control group? etc… That’s how one evaluates whether or not there’s any credence in the “findings”. In the absence of that information you may as well say “I’ve heard that…”, “People say that…”.

Biedrik asks this as well.

Good point regarding the methodology. However, there is generally no control group in survey research; this is not an experiment although that would be interesting!

 

[cosmic_chi]

who cares if a priest is gay or str8, practising or not…its between him and his God.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Can I ask why it matters as long as the priest is living a chaste life as called for by his promise (for a secular priest) or vows (for a religious)?

The studies I have looked at all seem flawed. I would not put my trust in them but again, what does it matter?

 

[Seamus_L]

I think you have a serious problem if you have a large number of priests with homosexual attractions, even if they are chaste. If such a situation really exists we need to be asking why ? Also, I believe my increasing those numbers you also increase the chances that some may not remain chaste.

 

[Robin10]

I stumbled upon this thread looking for a different one. However, I do feel constrained to offer my view.
I used to be a priest, having left about 20 years ago. To this day, I wish I had stayed in the priesthood. I did not leave to marry, but after 10 years out, thought it better to have a wife than to be single. I believe completely in a celibate clergy.

Hence my point. It does not matter what one’s sexual persuasion is. As a celibate, your embrace the Cross of Christ. One’s sexuality becomes your sacrifice; just as your lust for power (in older men); or for avarice, possessions, money, etc. (in middle aged men).

Celibacy is your sacrifice and martyrdom for the sake of Christ and His Church. In some sense I am glad I do not say this from a theoretical position; but as one who broke his vows far more than he should have (once, I agree, is more than any priest should. Celibacy is a sign of loving God enough as to give up all for His sake. There are many, I know, who disagree with me.

Last point, how many gay priests are there? Thinking of all those I have known well, at least 3/5 I know where heterosexual; of the remainder, fewer than 1/5 I suspected were homosexual. There are those people in this world who are just about asexual. They are not particularly passionate about anything, and are not particularly talented. Yes, they make ‘good priests’. They seem to embrace celibacy quite easily. However, they are more easily given to other sins that are far more destructive and deaden the Church – greed, avarice, power … For these, the vow of poverty exists. For others (myself included), is the vow of obedience. And that’s where I fell down in the end.

The world loves to attack the Church. The sexual abuse scandals, I believe for good reason, are part of that.

 

[ciero]

I stumbled upon this thread looking for a different one. However, I do feel constrained to offer my view.
I used to be a priest, having left about 20 years ago. To this day, I wish I had stayed in the priesthood. I did not leave to marry, but after 10 years out, thought it better to have a wife than to be single. I believe completely in a celibate clergy.

Hence my point. It does not matter what one’s sexual persuasion is. As a celibate, your embrace the Cross of Christ. One’s sexuality becomes your sacrifice; just as your lust for power (in older men); or for avarice, possessions, money, etc. (in middle aged men).

Celibacy is your sacrifice and martyrdom for the sake of Christ and His Church. In some sense I am glad I do not say this from a theoretical position; but as one who broke his vows far more than he should have (once, I agree, is more than any priest should. Celibacy is a sign of loving God enough as to give up all for His sake. There are many, I know, who disagree with me.

Last point, how many gay priests are there? Thinking of all those I have known well, at least 3/5 I know where heterosexual; of the remainder, fewer than 1/5 I suspected were homosexual. There are those people in this world who are just about asexual. They are not particularly passionate about anything, and are not particularly talented. Yes, they make ‘good priests’. They seem to embrace celibacy quite easily. However, they are more easily given to other sins that are far more destructive and deaden the Church – greed, avarice, power … For these, the vow of poverty exists. For others (myself included), is the vow of obedience. And that’s where I fell down in the end.

The world loves to attack the Church. The sexual abuse scandals, I believe for good reason, are part of that.

Well put Robin.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

The practice in the Christian East is to have married clergy work in parishes while celibates, including priests who are widowers, become monastics.

I don’t know about the RC Church and it’s none of my business. But in the UGCC, a married priest will tend to be very giving of self and sacrifices much more than any of our celibate priests might.

My grandmother was a presbytera or wife of an EC priest. I saw her do all kinds of things my grandfather wouldn’t because the parishioners would rather approach her than him in those matters. She had a family of six to raise, looked after the parish, counselled the women of the parish, organized fundraisers etc. During the war she looked after children who lost their parents. I know from people who were children under her care that she attended youth dances to make sure no immorality went on etc.

She still found the time to pray the rosary and the chaplet of Divine Mercy daily, in addition to attending daily DL and her long morning and evening prayers.

When I told her I wanted to become a priest, she told me “only if you can get married first, you are handsome and girls will give you lots of grief.”

Now that I"m married, my wife sometimes gives me grief . . .

But my view is that if unmarried priests live a life of constant prayer and sacrifice, then I can’t imagine a more rewarding life.

Their “wife” becomes the life of prayer and sacrifice. Without a good marriage to that way of life, celibate priests run the dangerous risk of failing in their vocation, whatever their orientation.

Also, why is it that Traditional RC seminaries are full and are turning away candidates? There is something to be said of the respectful Tridentine Rite with its long prayers.

People who pray for a long time, liturgically and privately, have little time left to think of sinning.

Alex

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Also, why is it that Traditional RC seminaries are full and are turning away candidates? There is something to be said of the respectful Tridentine Rite with its long prayers.

While it might be true (I have also heard this) that such seminaries are turning away candidates and are full but they also tend to be on the smaller side and have a very small number of seats avalible.

But this is not the only factor. How many of those who attend these seminaries are making it to ordination and then how many of them are making it to their fifth year aniversary of ordination?