Homosexual religious without being ordained?

[triumphguy]

It’s better to say that the Church avoids ordaining people with this condition. They way you stated it, it sounds like there is something about homosexuality that makes ordination impossible.

There is.

A celibate man with homosexual tendencies should not be permitted to enter religious life because (1) he will be entering a near occasion of sin; (2) his vow of chastity will be meaningless; and (3) his vow of chastity will be scripturally and canonically invalid. The Catechism states, “Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection” (#2359). One should not, however, confuse this vocation with the call to community religious life.

Personal story:

I was in a seminary for 4 years and a religious house for 6 years.

About 1/3 of the seminarians were gay at the time.

About 1/5 of the religious men were gay.

Apart from Church teaching, and based on my experience, I believe that having homosexual men in close communities, or Holy Orders is a very bad thing.

It was not an “affirming” situation for me to be in as a young man.

For example: Witnessing gaggles of young men with fuzzy slippers with bunny ears and moose antlers, skipping through the corridors singing “little bunny froo froo” was not exactly edifying or conducive to mutual respect.

Neither did I like having my behind pinched by some fat old… OK I’m beginning to rant

Religious communities have better things to be doing with their time than trying to accommodate the sexuality of the people in their midst.

Things like liturgy, ministry, feeding the hungry etc.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Neither did I like having my behind pinched by some fat old… OK I’m beginning to rant.

We women hear you, we have been pinched etc by fat old men for most of our lives. In some cases, priests. It’s part of the human condition.

 

[triumphguy]

We women hear you, we have been pinched etc by fat old men for most of our lives. In some cases, priests. It’s part of the human condition.

But it’s not part of the job description for a young friar!:dts:

 

[Julia_Mae]

But it’s not part of the job description for a young friar!:dts:

It’s not part of the job description of* anyone*, but a Las Vegas hooker. It is not worse to get pinched when you are a guy. The ugly fact is: it’s sexual assault. Women, from the time they are girls, talk to other women and girls about this and society gives a certain amount of Boys-will-be-boys permission, so our protests are not taken seriously.

It’s assault. It’s rage-fueled, dehumanizing control behavior. It makes you feel horrible. Especially if you don’t get to punch in the face of the one who did it or have your complaint taken seriously.

I’m sorry this happened to you.

 

[april32010]

It’s not part of the job description of* anyone*, but a Las Vegas hooker. It is not worse to get pinched when you are a guy. The ugly fact is: it’s sexual assault. Women, from the time they are girls, talk to other women and girls about this and society gives a certain amount of Boys-will-be-boys permission, so our protests are not taken seriously.

It’s assault. It’s rage-fueled, dehumanizing control behavior. It makes you feel horrible. Especially if you don’t get to punch in the face of the one who did it or have your complaint taken seriously.

I’m sorry this happened to you.

why not? :blackeye:

 

[triumphguy]

It’s not part of the job description of* anyone*, but a Las Vegas hooker. It is not worse to get pinched when you are a guy. The ugly fact is: it’s sexual assault. Women, from the time they are girls, talk to other women and girls about this and society gives a certain amount of Boys-will-be-boys permission, so our protests are not taken seriously.

It’s assault. It’s rage-fueled, dehumanizing control behavior. It makes you feel horrible. Especially if you don’t get to punch in the face of the one who did it or have your complaint taken seriously.

I’m sorry this happened to you.

Of course it’s horrible for anyone, male or female, to be touched inappropriately.

I was just making the point that homosexuality can be a problem in seminary or a religious house.

 

[april32010]

why not? :blackeye:

i just realized this post could be could construed as laughing about someone being sexually assaulted,it wasn’t.it was laughing about someone getting a black eye because they pinched someones behind.now thats funny.

 

[Faithdancer]

same sex attraction is a disorder,unlike being attracted to the opposite sex.and the vow of celibacy for someone suffering from same sex attraction is different in that they are aren’t, in your words "giving up "a good.

Excellent distinction, April!

 

[Julia_Mae]

why not? :blackeye:

I chased the guy that pinched my daughter for four blocks and lost him in a bar. I think he went out the back.

Women of my age were expected to take such assaults like “good sports.” It was the woman who was wrong if she complained. She was ostracized, her reputation smeared, her job lost.

I taught my own daughter how to throw a punch. At 18, behind the counter of the TCBY that was her first job, her young male co-worker pinched her in front of a lot of customers, presuming she would do nothing.

He found himself flat on his back on the floor with a fat lip.

It is a measure of my need for much spiritual growth that I find the memory very satisfying and only wish I could have been there to see it.

In the name of gender-equality, I’ll also report she once did the same to a girl, and for the same reason.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I was just making the point that homosexuality can be a problem in seminary or a religious house.

I want to agree with you. But I feel compelled to say that a homosexual shouldn’t be a problem in this way. This is just abuse. The gay men I know aren’t abusive. I heard other stories like this online from former brothers or seminarians before the scandals broke. Most didn’t believe them.

I have a question: did you ever report this? Or did you find yourself “not making waves?”

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

There is.

Personal story:

I was in a seminary for 4 years and a religious house for 6 years.

About 1/3 of the seminarians were gay at the time.

About 1/5 of the religious men were gay.

Apart from Church teaching, and based on my experience, I believe that having homosexual men in close communities, or Holy Orders is a very bad thing.

It was not an “affirming” situation for me to be in as a young man.

For example: Witnessing gaggles of young men with fuzzy slippers with bunny ears and moose antlers, skipping through the corridors singing “little bunny froo froo” was not exactly edifying or conducive to mutual respect.

Neither did I like having my behind pinched by some fat old… OK I’m beginning to rant

Religious communities have better things to be doing with their time than trying to accommodate the sexuality of the people in their midst.

Things like liturgy, ministry, feeding the hungry etc.

1. The song is Little Bunny Foo Foo
2. That’s incredibly undignified and unbecoming of a clergyman thus it should have been reported to the person in charge and quickly stomped out.
3. Did you report the men sexually harassing you? There should be no butt squeezing unless both parties consent and in a seminary or religious house there still shouldn’t be any butt squeezing.

 

[april32010]

I want to agree with you. But I feel compelled to say that a homosexual shouldn’t be a problem in this way. This is just abuse. The gay men I know aren’t abusive. I heard other stories like this online from former brothers or seminarians before the scandals broke. Most didn’t believe them.

I have a question: did you ever report this? Or did you find yourself “not making waves?”

and you know this how ? you do know that men act different around men then they do with women.

 

[april32010]

1. The song is Little Bunny Foo Foo
2. That’s incredibly undignified and unbecoming of a clergyman thus it should have been reported to the person in charge and quickly stomped out.
3. Did you report the men sexually harassing you? There should be no butt squeezing unless both parties consent and in a seminary or religious house there still shouldn’t be any butt squeezing.

and if same sex attracted males are not in a seminary or religious house there wouldn’t be this problem.

 

[Rainaldo]

1. The song is Little Bunny Foo Foo
2. That’s incredibly undignified and unbecoming of a clergyman thus it should have been reported to the person in charge and quickly stomped out.
3. Did you report the men sexually harassing you? There should be no butt squeezing unless both parties consent and in a seminary or religious house there still shouldn’t be any butt squeezing.

I am mystified. What do you mean?

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Is it possible that a man who is homosexual but live chastely can be friar or brother but without being priest?

I know that the homosexuals can’t be ordained according to the Instruction of the Congregation for Catholic Education, but I don’t know if this Instruction includes the impossibility of joining a religious order or institute like a friar or religious without being ordained too.

God blesses all of you and sorry for my mistakes with English.

I would clarify something here. Homosexuality “will” get anyone barred from joining the priesthood, a religious order, anything. One is not homosexual unless they are living a homosexual lifestyle, ie physically active. For one who is living chastely, they are not homosexual. They struggle with same sex inclinations. This is a difficult cross to carry but it is not a sin. As such it does not bar entrance to religious orders/the priesthood. If one struggles with these inclinations they must demonstrate that they are able to live chastely as well as demonstrate that they will uphold the Church teachings on matters relating to homosexuality. If these standards are met, it is my understanding that there is nothing barring them entrance.

 

[Julia_Mae]

and you know this how ? you do know that men act different around men then they do with women.

The same way anyone knows anything about their friends. People who are sexually abusive are controlling in more than one way and act out in a variety of situations in my experience. They both say and do things that give evidence of the mindset that boundaries are theirs to cross and that others are to be objectified and used for their own needs.

However, if you want to advance the argument that we can’t ever know who is abusive, then we need to do what Saint Clare did and ban any contact whatsoever between priests and women religious, and never allow anyone to be alone with children, including their own parents. Which would, indeed, reduce the incidents of child death and trauma significantly.