Homosexuality as a Perversion

[Captain_America]

As a man with SSA, I can say that if you say “the homosexual act”, I immediately assume you must mean anal sex. Moreover, on your list of consequences of “the act of homosexuality”, you put:

This seems targeted at anal sex – although it isn’t completely inapplicable to oral sex. Not really applicable to mutual masturbation. And certainly not true of kissing!

Nor does much in that description appear to apply to lesbians.

I’m only pointing this out because we need to be clear about when we are criticizing a particular type of action (a sex act) and when we are criticizing falling prey to a disposition (same-sex eroticism). If our arguments just aim at the particular actions, then we leave a large realm open for the disposition – and indeed, history is full of people who celebrated same-sex eroticism without engaging in these sex acts (Socrates and Shakespeare, for example).

If the argument were to only prove that anal sex is wrong, that would be a rather small victory.

I think perversion is an acceptable description. One need only read accounts of the bath houses (there’s now bath house tourism), the sex trade, the shows, parades, resorts, etc., to see that there is an OVER-concern with sex. . . a kind of hyper drive among male homosexuals. Lesbians seem to have fears or past harms from males and seek solace among a similar gender; the sexual act being a secondary concern. Lesbianism suggests emotional damage of a psychological sort took place; male homosexuality seems a disordered sexual desire.

It would be interesting to posit that male homosexuality is a kind of nymphomaniac condition.

Saying all this, if you’re gay and read this, take no offense; none is intended. I’m interested in education here of the most serious sort; fact-finding and truth-finding. And in the year 2013, I think we can all agree that the notion that truth is subjective has been found to be flat, insubstantial hooey.

I think we need to know more in this area generally; science hasn’t helped as much as it could.

From a moral perspective, I note that there is a tremendously humanizing and intellectually broadening, maturizing effect which happens when men and women relate openly and seriously with each other. Each gender learns deeply from the other. So I feel some pity toward homosexuals who are antagonistic to this; they want to keep their blinders on.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I think perversion is an acceptable description. One need only read accounts of the bath houses (there’s now bath house tourism), the sex trade, the shows, parades, resorts, etc., to see that there is an OVER-concern with sex. . . a kind of hyper drive among male homosexuals. Lesbians seem to have fears or past harms from males and seek solace among a similar gender; the sexual act being a secondary concern. Lesbianism suggests emotional damage of a psychological sort took place; male homosexuality seems a disordered sexual desire.

It would be interesting to posit that male homosexuality is a kind of nymphomaniac condition.

I assure you, gay men want a LOT more from each other than just sex. The reason the bathhouse phenomenon is so big is that you cannot easily and quickly satisfy a need for intimacy by making a phone call, but you can satisfy the desire for sex by making a phone call, or going to a bathhouse.

Look, if straight men had attractive women who were willing to have sex with them, any hour of any day, many straight men would take advantage of that. Well, attractive gay men DO have attractive men who are willing to have sex with them every hour of every day (and they don’t even demand payment). If we don’t say that all of the aforementioned straight men are “just nymphomaniacs”, then we shouldn’t say that homosexual men are “andromaniacs”. (Sorry, “nymphs” are necessarily female, so I changed the root.)

Saying all this, if you’re gay and read this, take no offense; none is intended. I’m interested in education here of the most serious sort; fact-finding and truth-finding.

Good to know. It looked, above, that you were jumping to conclusions without asking gay men about their own experiences, though.

From a moral perspective, I note that there is a tremendously humanizing and intellectually broadening, maturizing effect which happens when men and women relate openly and seriously with each other. Each gender learns deeply from the other. So I feel some pity toward homosexuals who are antagonistic to this; they want to keep their blinders on.

But have you not observed that gay men DO have close friendships with women, relationships that are open and serious? I agree that there are some gay men who don’t have good friends that are women, and some gay women that don’t have close male friends, but your statement is overgeneralizing.

 

[donna369]

Yes it sounds like it does. Your body, note, isn’t built for being in space.

It may be the case that being in space IS immoral (please don’t make the mistake of thinking morality has only to do with sex). Being in space, with our contrivances, may be damaging to our bodies, etc., in a number of ways. So one would possibly be intentionally inflicting pain on one’s self.

most of the things in our modern world have both negative and positive consequences. is eating a hotdog with nitrates in it immoral? no. but nitrates are harmful. is living in a city full of pollution immoral? no. but it is still potentially harmful. extended stays in space are harmful. but we are looking at ways to make it safer. and the potential positives of space travel may outway the negatives. the church has no problem with space travel. the church DOES have a problem with homosexual activity.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

is eating a hotdog with nitrates in it immoral? no.

Do you have alternatives? I would think that – all else being equal – choosing a hot dog with nitrates over another hot dog without nitrates would be immoral. Maybe only in a minor way, but nevertheless immoral. It falls under the heading of intentionally causing oneself harm.

 

[donna369]

I think perversion is an acceptable description. One need only read accounts of the bath houses (there’s now bath house tourism), the sex trade, the shows, parades, resorts, etc., to see that there is an OVER-concern with sex. . . a kind of hyper drive among male homosexuals.** Lesbians seem to have fears or past harms from males and seek solace among a similar gender; the sexual act being a secondary concern. Lesbianism suggests emotional damage of a psychological sort took place; male homosexuality seems a disordered sexual desire.**

having known some lesbians i don’t think your over-generalization of them is in any way accurate. lesbians, have the same problems/issues as gay men. they are just as disordered as their male counterparts. are there any lesbians who would like to discuss their side of this issue?
furthermore, gay men have often suffered the same abuses as the females. this does not necessarily mean that that is why they are gay or lesbian. but we should not assume that men are gay for no reason and women are lesbians because of abuse and fear.