Honeymoon with Catholicism is passing away

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TK421

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I suppose I’m just here to vent and to receive some empathy with the current part of my spiritual journey through life. I don’t have anybody in my life that I feel comfortable (or would necessarily be able to understand) to discuss this subject with, so the safe anonymity of the internet will have to do. Maybe it’s even preferable.

No, I am not experiencing any doubts about my conversion. As far as my mind goes, I think I am more solid in my conviction of the Catholic Church than I was when I first received Reconciliation, Confirmation, and Communion. My heart and soul are becoming sad though.

It’s hard to miss something that you never knew existed, but when I first started learning about Catholicism not-so-long ago, it all clicked very quickly for me. There was no prolonged process of gradually warming up to it after many years due to a friend or relative or spouse (I’m a single young man). It all happened I believe in less than 2 months… or maybe even in less than a month. I’m not entirely sure. It was summer in 2013 when I started reading Catholic apologetics and well before the summer was over I was waiting to get started with RCIA (to sit in on what I had already taught myself).

I was already critical and confused (while at the same time affectionate) of Christianity beforehand, and though I didn’t realize it, many of my doubts were related to the holes that protestant Christianity has suffered ever since their long-dead ancestors left the Church in the political/spiritual turmoil of centuries ago. How can you possibly have any confidence in interpreting a text that has no voice by itself? How can we with confidence apply and decipher the moral dilemmas of today without having any authoritative voice? The tenants of Catholicism weren’t a burden or a difficulty for me, but it was like I was starring at an incomplete puzzle and suddenly the missing pieces dropped in front of my lap and they fitted like a glove. So yes, it was a fast conversion for me, and the more I learned, the more it solidified.

Discovering that I no longer had to suffer and navigate the cacophony of varying opinions - with all the vanity and the agendas - was wonderful. The chaos was gone. The division was gone. And, there was Christ, more crystal clear and perfect and lovely than he had even been. The Church was a huge, blazing fire in the night, where there was sanity and truth and reason and goodness. All the spiritual treasures came very quickly. The tangible, promised, reliable, ever-present comfort of the sacraments. My Mother, Mary: she greeted me at the door with tears in her eyes, and I have been in love with her ever since. 2000 years of rich Tradition, meditation, and spiritual counsel, all at my fingertips. I can spend my entire life reading and I will have barely penetrated the surface by the time I die. It was wonderful, and it still is. I never had this before, and the huge volume I now have access to still awes me.

But I’m sad now. I see that the unity the Church provides doesn’t seem to have that big of an effect in real life. To some extent, I still feel like I’m among the free-for-all bloodbath of protestant Christianity. I’ve been hanging out on this forum on and off since I joined, and I see so much conflict and disagreement - severe disagreement. It’s not just between Catholics and nominal/heterodox Catholics, but between orthodox Catholics. The euphoria of the Catholic Church has started to fad with it, and dampen me. I don’t feel the sense of camaraderie that I felt when I first joined. At the moment, I feel just as likely to trust or distrust the judgement and character of a fellow Catholic as I am anybody else. Maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe it’s what God desires. Maybe there was a spiritual pride or coldness within me that I couldn’t notice, and God is now at the surgeon’s table, pulling it out of me. Now I’m plugging along, day after day, hoping that I’m getting sanctified along the way and that the tunnel will widen once more and this loneliness will go away, like it did for a little while. Maybe I really need to get off of this forum now that it has done its service. It might be harming me at this point. I don’t know. Storms come and storms go.

That’s all.
 
I never feel refreshed after having a discussion under debate. It just makes me feel drained and sad inside, and a surprisingly large chunk of the evening passes by, and yet I keep coming back. What is it about mankind that makes her keep coming to something that causes her pain? Every other creature in creation seems to have the common sense to stay away. Is it virtuous, or is it concupiscence?
 
I can relate to your feelings. I am working in a school that claims to be Catholic, but it’s “in name only.” I was looking forward to working where service to Jesus was priority one. Boy, was I ever wrong about that! I completely understand that your disappointment is real and painful.

As you suggested, maybe you do need to take a break, but try avoiding the contentious subjects instead of leaving altogether. Although, I know arguments crop up in the most unexpected places, avoiding the topics that are most likely to result in disagreement might be the best thing for you right now. Have you tried reading some of the “social” threads (Back Fence, Water Cooler)? There are usually very pleasant and amusing conversations that make me realize that the contentious arguments are only a part of the picture here for n the forums.
 
Maybe you could stay (at your own rate and speed) and keep refreshing us.

As a newby here myself I find it difficult to keep up with threads and members. I have also snapped at people in my distress over lots of things.

quote I see that the unity the Church provides doesn’t seem to have that big of an effect in real life. To some extent, I still feel like I’m among the free-for-all bloodbath of protestant Christianity. I’ve been hanging out on this forum on and off since I joined, and I see so much conflict and disagreement - severe disagreement. unquote

I still mix with protestants a lot. They are my sanity valve with the Catholics and vice versa. Though a Catholic I was brought up more protestant but also fairly non-Christian. My very sparse formal “catechesis” stopped at age 9.

I am neutral towards liturgy as long as it isn’t made into a load of rubbish. I see the only important divide as between those who want there to be more catechesis and those who don’t.

“Effect in real life”. That is the whole nub. I think you and I have a lot of outlook in common despite the difference in backgrounds.

In my observation Catholics talk even less about conversion of heart than protestants when they should be talking about it more.

Have you really fallen out that badly with your Protestant friends? Maybe they can help you with the “real life” side of things like mine are doing. My Catholic beliefs are strengthening as I go. I don’t use their “communion”. If they trot out error I try to get them to think deeper rather than aiming to win an argument.

If the Spirit of the Lord mixes Himself up in it it will work out somehow. Due to the urgency, He has ditched perfectionism and is a bad theologian, as it were. Fancy Francis greeting the Copelandists of all people!

Francis drops hints. We know the answer to “Is the Pope a Catholic?” and here he is greeting them.
 
A couple of thoughts…

If this forum is making you cynical, then you ought to more strictly limit your use. The division and squabbling in the Church can be disheartening, but remember that even the Holy Apostles struggled with the same things. Don’t be scandalized by the human character of the Church.

Second, all honeymoons end as you move from the new and exciting to gritty and ordinary. But authentic holiness is made when you are left without the easier consolation of novelty. Your faith is maturing and thereay indeed be periods of time where your heart is tired and weary. Don’t get discouraged by it, but realize that this is when total abandonment to God becomes more powerful, even if it isn’t especially satisfying emotionally.
 
Hey man I hear you. In a big way. I know what you’re saying and I know why. As a fellow convert I get a lot of what you’re saying. But some of that comes with the territory. And I mean you know that. It’s sort of like dating and getting married. When you date you’ve got all the best impressions out in the open. All the good stuff lifted up for the eyes to see. All the best words to say. But once you’re married the familiarity sets in. You’re no longer afraid of driving each other away. So now the honesty comes out. At the price of peaceful bliss.

And another thing is that the voyage of discovery is always the most exciting. There’s an adventure there. There are new things to see and do. But once you get there. Once you make a home there. You find you’ve now got to trade your adventurer’s boots for ones that are more practical to wear around the house. You’ve got to settle into a routine and start the part of shoring up your side of things. Your no longer the guest in this. You’re now part of the family. You’re now sharing in the chores. You’re now part of what keeps the church alive.

So yeah. That’s sort of the difference between a living church and a dead one. This thing has to be looked at as organic. It’s supposed to be the Body of Christ, not just His statue. So things have to move around a bit. There has to be push and push-back. A bit of jostling really. But like you know that’s a healthy thing. It keeps us talking about stuff. I mean if we were all in the know and in agreement about everything we’d never have anything to think about. We’d never feel challenged enough in our faith to dig deeper.

So I know you and I had a bit of a dust-up in a different thread. I know the one. It was a tough thing there. It was you and me kind of getting schooled a bit. Kind of getting set back in our thinking about how things should be. About how things should be handled under a certain setting. I don’t want to bring up the details because I think I was wrong in what I said at the time. And I learned that mistake. I just wanted to bring it up as a general example.

So in that thread it was a bit of a challenge to hear the other opinions on something I/we thought we already knew. It was tough to see how what I/we thought were normal/right thinking ways led to some really strong disagreements. Well that was an organic thing. It was an awakening of ideas that I’d never had before. It was a revelation in a way. I don’t know if you took anything new away from that, but I did.

So I mean in a perfect world we’d have been all in agreement from the beginning. But then we’d never have had anything to say. And we’d never have felt like our words and experiences had any special meaning. And I mean there would have been no chance to learn. No novelty still hidden right under our very eyes.

So I hope you do what’s right for you. I hope you don’t leave for the wrong reasons. But I want you to know that I find you to be a really good sort. A good writer and pretty much on the level. I’d personally miss seeing you around. And I mean your empire here would sort of languish. But I know you’ve got to do what you feel most right about.

Peace Emperor. TK421 The Usurper. Long live the King and all that.

-Trident, your loyal subject and supporter. D.G. Division.
 
TK421 said:
I suppose I’m just here to vent and to receive some empathy with the current part of my spiritual journey through life. I don’t have anybody in my life that I feel comfortable (or would necessarily be able to understand) to discuss this subject with, so the safe anonymity of the internet will have to do. Maybe it’s even preferable.

No, I am not experiencing any doubts about my conversion. As far as my mind goes, I think I am more solid in my conviction of the Catholic Church than I was when I first received Reconciliation, Confirmation, and Communion. My heart and soul are becoming sad though.

It’s hard to miss something that you never knew existed, but when I first started learning about Catholicism not-so-long ago, it all clicked very quickly for me. There was no prolonged process of gradually warming up to it after many years due to a friend or relative or spouse (I’m a single young man). It all happened I believe in less than 2 months… or maybe even in less than a month. I’m not entirely sure. It was summer in 2013 when I started reading Catholic apologetics and well before the summer was over I was waiting to get started with RCIA (to sit in on what I had already taught myself).

I was already critical and confused (while at the same time affectionate) of Christianity beforehand, and though I didn’t realize it, many of my doubts were related to the holes that protestant Christianity has suffered ever since their long-dead ancestors left the Church in the political/spiritual turmoil of centuries ago. How can you possibly have any confidence in interpreting a text that has no voice by itself? How can we with confidence apply and decipher the moral dilemmas of today without having any authoritative voice? The tenants of Catholicism weren’t a burden or a difficulty for me, but it was like I was starring at an incomplete puzzle and suddenly the missing pieces dropped in front of my lap and they fitted like a glove. So yes, it was a fast conversion for me, and the more I learned, the more it solidified.

Discovering that I no longer had to suffer and navigate the cacophony of varying opinions - with all the vanity and the agendas - was wonderful. The chaos was gone. The division was gone. And, there was Christ, more crystal clear and perfect and lovely than he had even been. The Church was a huge, blazing fire in the night, where there was sanity and truth and reason and goodness. All the spiritual treasures came very quickly. The tangible, promised, reliable, ever-present comfort of the sacraments. My Mother, Mary: she greeted me at the door with tears in her eyes, and I have been in love with her ever since. 2000 years of rich Tradition, meditation, and spiritual counsel, all at my fingertips. I can spend my entire life reading and I will have barely penetrated the surface by the time I die. It was wonderful, and it still is. I never had this before, and the huge volume I now have access to still awes me.

But I’m sad now. I see that the unity the Church provides doesn’t seem to have that big of an effect in real life. To some extent, I still feel like I’m among the free-for-all bloodbath of protestant Christianity. I’ve been hanging out on this forum on and off since I joined, and I see so much conflict and disagreement - severe disagreement. It’s not just between Catholics and nominal/heterodox Catholics, but between orthodox Catholics. The euphoria of the Catholic Church has started to fad with it, and dampen me. I don’t feel the sense of camaraderie that I felt when I first joined. At the moment, I feel just as likely to trust or distrust the judgement and character of a fellow Catholic as I am anybody else. Maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe it’s what God desires. Maybe there was a spiritual pride or coldness within me that I couldn’t notice, and God is now at the surgeon’s table, pulling it out of me. Now I’m plugging along, day after day, hoping that I’m getting sanctified along the way and that the tunnel will widen once more and this loneliness will go away, like it did for a little while. Maybe I really need to get off of this forum now that it has done its service. It might be harming me at this point. I don’t know. Storms come and storms go.

That’s all.
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TK421 - I believe that God calls us out of our comfort zone. In 50 years, I was blessed enough to experience five years of cameraderie with like-minded women. We shared the same value system, raised our children in the orthodox faith and came from similar cultural and education backgrounds. It was wonderful.

For several reasons, it didn’t last. Now I am once again on my own with very little quality companionship. However, I have really grown in my faith. I know that there are few Catholics that think the way I do so I have stopped looking for that kind of connection.

Now I focus on volunteering and wanting to ease loneliness in others.

Jesus calls us to be missionaries and I know I was not in that mind-set when I had my friends. It was fun and I can tear up just remembering all the fun that we used to have, but God has definitely led me out to the desert.

I have offered up my loneliness to God and have asked him to use it for his will. It’s strange though, I am at peace and have joy in my heart.

I hope this helps. 🙂
 
TK421 said:
I suppose I’m just here to vent and to receive some empathy with the current part of my spiritual journey through life. I don’t have anybody in my life that I feel comfortable (or would necessarily be able to understand) to discuss this subject with, so the safe anonymity of the internet will have to do. Maybe it’s even preferable.

No, I am not experiencing any doubts about my conversion. As far as my mind goes, I think I am more solid in my conviction of the Catholic Church than I was when I first received Reconciliation, Confirmation, and Communion. My heart and soul are becoming sad though.

It’s hard to miss something that you never knew existed, but when I first started learning about Catholicism not-so-long ago, it all clicked very quickly for me. There was no prolonged process of gradually warming up to it after many years due to a friend or relative or spouse (I’m a single young man). It all happened I believe in less than 2 months… or maybe even in less than a month. I’m not entirely sure. It was summer in 2013 when I started reading Catholic apologetics and well before the summer was over I was waiting to get started with RCIA (to sit in on what I had already taught myself).

I was already critical and confused (while at the same time affectionate) of Christianity beforehand, and though I didn’t realize it, many of my doubts were related to the holes that protestant Christianity has suffered ever since their long-dead ancestors left the Church in the political/spiritual turmoil of centuries ago. How can you possibly have any confidence in interpreting a text that has no voice by itself? How can we with confidence apply and decipher the moral dilemmas of today without having any authoritative voice? The tenants of Catholicism weren’t a burden or a difficulty for me, but it was like I was starring at an incomplete puzzle and suddenly the missing pieces dropped in front of my lap and they fitted like a glove. So yes, it was a fast conversion for me, and the more I learned, the more it solidified.

Discovering that I no longer had to suffer and navigate the cacophony of varying opinions - with all the vanity and the agendas - was wonderful. The chaos was gone. The division was gone. And, there was Christ, more crystal clear and perfect and lovely than he had even been. The Church was a huge, blazing fire in the night, where there was sanity and truth and reason and goodness. All the spiritual treasures came very quickly. The tangible, promised, reliable, ever-present comfort of the sacraments. My Mother, Mary: she greeted me at the door with tears in her eyes, and I have been in love with her ever since. 2000 years of rich Tradition, meditation, and spiritual counsel, all at my fingertips. I can spend my entire life reading and I will have barely penetrated the surface by the time I die. It was wonderful, and it still is. I never had this before, and the huge volume I now have access to still awes me.

But I’m sad now. I see that the unity the Church provides doesn’t seem to have that big of an effect in real life. To some extent, I still feel like I’m among the free-for-all bloodbath of protestant Christianity. I’ve been hanging out on this forum on and off since I joined, and I see so much conflict and disagreement - severe disagreement. It’s not just between Catholics and nominal/heterodox Catholics, but between orthodox Catholics. The euphoria of the Catholic Church has started to fad with it, and dampen me. I don’t feel the sense of camaraderie that I felt when I first joined. At the moment, I feel just as likely to trust or distrust the judgement and character of a fellow Catholic as I am anybody else. Maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe it’s what God desires. Maybe there was a spiritual pride or coldness within me that I couldn’t notice, and God is now at the surgeon’s table, pulling it out of me. Now I’m plugging along, day after day, hoping that I’m getting sanctified along the way and that the tunnel will widen once more and this loneliness will go away, like it did for a little while. Maybe I really need to get off of this forum now that it has done its service. It might be harming me at this point. I don’t know. Storms come and storms go.

That’s all.
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That’s the thing about internet friends and discussion.
It’s all artfully scripted, cited, and quoted. Edited, re-edited, and posted.
Real life? Not so much. Not at all really.
I strongly suggest you join a parish discussion group, sponsor someone for RCIA, join the Knights of Columbus, join the food bank people, be a case worker for St. Vincent DePaul, teach PSR or LifeTeen.
Your posts and scholarship are great!
Use that knowledge to work in the vineyard. It’s WAY different and it brings that purpose that you seek.
I’m sure you make a difference in the lives of your students…maybe their parents need ministering to as well.
God bless you, TK.
 
In the Acts of the Apostles, Paul and Barnabas just could not see eye to eye. They argued so that they broke up and went in other directions. Yet, both proved to be great teachers and saints.

Don’t let the squabbles upset you. Focus on the truth.
 
Sometimes when I feel discouraged, I read from the life of the desert fathers. Their simple approach to living their faith reminds me that my faith should not be an intellectual exercise. Jesus asked us to love God, love others and love ourselves. I keep my eyes on trying to do, in the words of St. Teresa of Calcutta, “small things with great love.” It is a hard task. Doing small things is easy, it’s the great love part I always seem to find difficult.

So I guess, my advice to you would be to begin putting your faith into practice. I also try to keep in mind the words of St. James “17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.” Entering the church should be a transformative event. How better to witness to others than by engaging in loving acts and trying to see Jesus in everything and everyone. That task alone should keep most of us busy for the rest of our lives.
 
TK421 said:
I never feel refreshed after having a discussion under debate. It just makes me feel drained and sad inside, and a surprisingly large chunk of the evening passes by, and yet I keep coming back. What is it about mankind that makes her keep coming to something that causes her pain? Every other creature in creation seems to have the common sense to stay away. Is it virtuous, or is it concupiscence?
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Even the Apostles and first Christians had their debates (e.g. Acts 15:2). But the good news is, your faith isn’t founded on any 2 Catholics in an argument, right? :o I also want to share this quote which relates to your honeymoon feeling:
“In Mexico, I used to go to Communion maybe once or twice a year, and I confess my sins and I felt so good and clean. And when I would go to Communion, and I have tears in my eyes, of emotion. And now, you know, I go to mass and Communion every Sunday, and now I go and I don’t feel anything. ‘Well, that’s good,’ [the priest said to me]. ‘Now you’re a Catholic of conviction. Before you were a Catholic of emotion which goes up and down according to your mood.’” (Ricardo Montalban, interviewed on Catholic Answers radio, March 11, 1999)
 
Antegin said:
In the Acts of the Apostles, Paul and Barnabas just could not see eye to eye. They argued so that they broke up and went in other directions. Yet, both proved to be great teachers and saints.

Don’t let the squabbles upset you. Focus on the truth.
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That’s a really good point. Yes, even saints had their disagreements: St. Jerome and St. Augustine come to mind.

bible-researcher.com/vulgate2.html

It is disheartening when some forums on CAF see devout Catholics at each other’s throats. I think we need to show more charity, but at the same time, I love that we can turn to each other if we ever need prayers.
 
It’s a shame that everyone on this post wasn’t able to attend the World Meeting of Families in Philadelphia.

20,000 people (before Pope Francis arrived), from over 100 countries all attending the meetings. When I would walk down the halls, I would stop in awe regarding the beauty of the Catholic Church. It was so awesome to see people from Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia, and South America.

Everyone was SO filled to be there and practically EVERYONE was a devout, practicing Catholic.

It was AMAZING

And the talks were incredible.

In the coming days or weeks, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia will place ALL of the talks on the Internet for free access by all.

The talks are 1000000000% worth watching.

God Bless
 
Sometimes I just have to walk away from CAF for a few days or a few weeks (made it most of Lent) just for mental health. Don’t be afraid to take a break, and certainly don’t confuse issues you have with folks on CAF as issues with Catholicism.

Spiritually, and in matters of faith, you seem to be in a good place and have a solid foundation.

Peace and all good!
 
MarcoPolo said:
Even the Apostles and first Christians had their debates (e.g. Acts 15:2). But the good news is, your faith isn’t founded on any 2 Catholics in an argument, right? :o I also want to share this quote which relates to your honeymoon feeling:
“In Mexico, I used to go to Communion maybe once or twice a year, and I confess my sins and I felt so good and clean. And when I would go to Communion, and I have tears in my eyes, of emotion. And now, you know, I go to mass and Communion every Sunday, and now I go and I don’t feel anything. ‘Well, that’s good,’ [the priest said to me]. ‘Now you’re a Catholic of conviction. Before you were a Catholic of emotion which goes up and down according to your mood.’” (Ricardo Montalban, interviewed on Catholic Answers radio, March 11, 1999)
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I have to strongly disagree with this. Emotions make you human. Look at Boehner, for example, while the rest of them act and talk like machines.
 
Looking for a question to answer, I guess you are implying one here:
TK421 said:
I see that the unity the Church provides doesn’t seem to have that big of an effect in real life. …] I don’t feel the sense of camaraderie that I felt when I first joined. …] Maybe I really need to get off of this forum now that it has done its service. It might be harming me at this point.
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  1. People are people. Build social networks by being active in your community (both in church and in your city); don’t assume members of one group have a different human nature. 😉
  2. Try to minimize your time online and maximize your time “in real life” interacting with people physically.
 
ProVobis said:
I have to strongly disagree with this. Emotions make you human. Look at Boehner, for example, while the rest of them act and talk like machines.
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I don’t think the point was anything related to being anti-emotion. I think the point was that it was good he remained faithful, even if he experienced dryness. This is a sort of one of the maxims of saints who persevere through dark nights.
 
Colorad007 said:
A couple of thoughts…

If this forum is making you cynical, then you ought to more strictly limit your use. The division and squabbling in the Church can be disheartening, but remember that even the Holy Apostles struggled with the same things. Don’t be scandalized by the human character of the Church.

Second, all honeymoons end as you move from the new and exciting to gritty and ordinary. But authentic holiness is made when you are left without the easier consolation of novelty. Your faith is maturing and thereay indeed be periods of time where your heart is tired and weary. Don’t get discouraged by it, but realize that this is when total abandonment to God becomes more powerful, even if it isn’t especially satisfying emotionally.
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Well put.

I can empathize with what you’re going through, TK. I’m not a convert. I’m not even technically a “revert” as I never stopped going to Mass every Sunday. But I went through a period of doubt before having a conversion experience where everything clicked and made sense and I realized all this Catholic stuff was actually true! It was definitely a honeymoon period as I read and read and hung out with a great group of Catholics.

I still recall the first disagreement I witnessed (it was over whether Catholics had a moral obligation to boycott Disney :p). At the time, it was a serious “woah!” moment for me to realize that Catholics—even the wonderful Catholics I had gotten to know—still disagreed on things. Up until then, I was operating under the subconscious assumption that we all agreed on everything all the time.

If the forum is getting you down, don’t be afraid to take a break and—as Clare wisely suggests—connect with your parish. The disagreements will still come, but they don’t seem so combative in real life as they do on the internet. 😛

Early on after my conversion experience, one of the great priests I knew would often pull out the quote attributed to St. Augustine: “In necessary things, unity. In doubtful things, liberty. In all things, charity.” As I’ve grown, I’ve come to appreciate the quote more and more. It helps me put the disagreements in perspective (not that some don’t still disagree on the necessary things, though :o).

God bless.
 
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