"Honoring your Father"

[GiannaMarie_JMJ]

I’ll try to make this long story short.
My sister has a Presbyterian boyfriend whose family is VERY anti-Catholic. He left home 7 months ago because he would not stop communicating with her because she is Catholic and they were going to extremes- emotional and slight physical abuse. He would ask my sister questions about the Church’s teachings and she would answer him and it would upset the father because he never had anything to say to challenge her answers. He has been living with our grandparents and plans on taking RCIA in October.When he first left home a spiritual advisor told him to keep the lines of communications open with the father, which he has through email. His father wants to meet with him. He does not want to meet with his father because his father will bring his bible ( He is an Elder at his church) and intimidate him and he is just not ready.
The father sent an email today stating that " You are rebelling against God because you left your father and your mother and that God calls children to obey their parents." He then sites Genesis 22, Exodus 20, Deut. 5 Proverbs 1:8, Proverbs 23:22, Mark 7:10 and then he also goes on about that he is his father and it is his responsibility to warn him.
We did find this,​

Q: What does “honor your father and your mother” mean? If the parents are abusive, does this change anything?
”A: St. Paul clarifies the fourth commandment, “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you” (Ex. 20:12), in his letter to the Ephesians: "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right (Eph. 6:1, emphasis added).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains:

As long as a child lives at home with his parents, the child should obey his parents in all that they ask of him when it is for his good or that of the family . . . But if a child is convinced in conscience that it would be morally wrong to obey a particular order, he must not do so . . . Obedience toward parents ceases with the emancipation of the children; not so respect, which is always owed to them. (CCC 2217)​

The question I have is, what can he say to his father that is scriptural on a son leaving is parents home and their guidance?

I hope this makes sense.

God Bless,

GiannaMarie_JMJ

 

[TheQuestioner]

Matthew 10

32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household

Ephesians 6

1Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2"Honor your father and mother"—which is the first commandment with a promise— 3"that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth." 4Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

Be careful. This does not give a child the right to rebel. However, he should show respect to his parents obviously, but he must also follow his conscience.

 

[BobObob]

Q: What does “honor your father and your mother” mean? If the parents are abusive, does this change anything?

Parents being abusive can change things a lot.

“Honor your father and mother” roughly means to obey them in things that one has an obligation to obey them.

The father has no authority to tell his son that he cannot become Catholic.

The child’s obligation toward the parent is not a one way street. If the father truly is emotionally or physically abusing him, than the obligation he has toward his father changes. He should always be respectful, but not necessarily obedient. The son primarily has obligations regarding his own spiritual, emotional, and physical welfare, and if properly attending to these legitimate needs (spiritual and otherwise) require disobeying his father, than disobeying his father is not only OK, but required.

I don’t know the intricate details regarding this situation, but living with the grandparents seems like a good idea.

 

[momor]

A few questions come to my mind:

How old is this young man? Is he financially independent? Is he rebellious in other ways?

Which do you think is more important to him, a) his search for faith or b) your sister?

 

[Desertsailor]

If he is joining the Church simply because your sister is catholic he’s doing the wrong thing. If your sister dumps him he’ll quit the Church and forfeit his soul. If he’s joining the Church because he wants to then he’s doing the right thing.

 

[GiannaMarie_JMJ]

Here’s a bit more to this story;

Like I said his father is an elder and on his mother’s side all 3 of her brothers are Presbyterian ministers. They belong to a very small church. Just a handful of families.
He and my sister are both homeschooled. They met a year and a half ago. It was a courtship- they always did things with other people. She would go to his home, met his grandmother, did things with his family and he was allowed to do things with ours. After about 6 months, and the questions his father asked were getting answered (Immaculate conception, purgatory, the papacy) the father told him that he must break it off with her because one of the minister uncles said so. They live in the country and they wouldn’t allow him to get his license, or get a job and they kept him in the basement to do his schoolwork. They told his siblings not to talk to him at all. The would get physical with each other (pushing, punching) When they knew he called her they blocked all the phones and blocked the internet. They made him sleep in the barn without heat (midddle of November- below freezing) and could only come in if he said that 'Catholics are going to hell because they beleive in a false doctrine". They threatened him by telling him they were going to take him back to Canada and leave him with an aunt who took in ‘troubled youth’ without his greencard. The night he left they had gone to their church to have a ‘trial’ with all the elders against him to excommunicate him. Afterwards, when they stopped the car to talk and they told him he needed a vacation away (he figured Canada) he got out and walked 12 miles to our house. My parents called the police and immigration lawyers to find out what they should do. In our state it is legal for a 17 year old to leave home and the father found that out when he called the police himself. He also called and spoke to my father. My father mentioned all of the above to him. His parents have not called again. The lawyers said he has to wait until he turns 18 before he can request them to give up his greencard. He has been living with my grandparents and has been helping them out (they are both handicapped) and he has been helping my father out also. We all thought the same thing that this was all because he was infatuated/obsessed with my sister more than the Faith. Our spiritual advisor said that even if that is the initial reason that we cannot turn our back on him if he sincerely wants to convert. That God uses many different ways to bring souls back home to Him. He is very prayerful, prays the daily rosary and chaplet, attends Mass with us. He says if anything happened to my sister that he would still become a Catholic. He is not rebellious at all, is very, very respectful. He will be 18 in a couple of months and he is looking forward to going to college and getting a job. He left with only the clothes on his back and never asks for anything. His father is very scary. I can see why he does not want to meet with him alone. When my mother was on the phone with his mother the night he called my sister she heard a ‘gutteral’ scream/cry that gave her chills and upset her terribly. Come to find out it was the father who was aggravated with his son. It has been very difficult for all of us and even though our little homeschool community has been shaken up tremendously, we do see that God has a plan, that we are being used. There are many people affected by this and for the most part most of them (Protestants and Catholics alike) are upset that someone would not consider a Catholic a Christian and would say we are going to hell.

I apprecate the scriptural references. I forgot that a priest we consulted early on mentioned Matthew 10:32-36 right away.

Please keep us all in your prayers!

 

[GratefulFred]

It sounds like this young man - is he just 17? - needs time and space to sort out HIS feelings. He is comming of age where HE needs the think FOR himself and not rely too much on the thinking of others.

It seems to me that he is getting advice from both sides - and it IS difficult at his age to decide what is indeed true, a truth that will be the solid foundation for his entire life. Should he obey his father, regardless of the father’s “stick” approach? Should he trust a young woman he may love, and her family who seem to offer the "carrot’ approach to religion his father rejects?

Compounding the matter is his need to finish his education and support himself while getting the education he needs. He needs LOVE (we all do) and TIME to sort it all out. While I had a truly loving mother, my prospects at age 17 were dim indeed. Ten days out of high school I was in the US Air Force serving my country while I figured out the path for me. With God’s good grace I found my path and married my high school sweetheart two years later. We’ve been happily married nearly 46 years.

The 4th Commandment is “honor.” It is not “obey.” He knows what his father thinks and wants. It is doubtful that he will, at his age, convince his father that his path through life will be different. So I would advise to avoid such discusions with the father. Emotions can go negative too far too quickly and honor can be violated.

Keeping the line of communication open is important. BUT I don’t think that requires daily, weekly or monthly contact as if some schedule must be kept. Communication IS A TWO WAY EFFORT. Trading attacks is not communication. Nor is presenting yourself for verbal and emotional abuse. Communication leads to understanding not recriminations. Fathers can sin in how they treat their family. I would not give the father too many opportunities to sin by frequent communication on touchy subjects.

Slow, less frequent contact gives both sides time to reflect and regain calmness. When it is appropriate in due time, I would pass along POSITIVE news and avoid areas that could go negative.

Meanwhile I would continue to pray for an increase in Wisdom and Faith. Both mine that that of my family especially those in most need of both.

Let Peace and Time be your ally. God speaks to quiet hearts that are opened to God.

 

[GiannaMarie_JMJ]

Great advice.

Thank you. We really appreciate it

 

[centurionguard]

I’ll try to make this long story short.
My sister has a Presbyterian boyfriend whose family is VERY anti-Catholic. He left home 7 months ago because he would not stop communicating with her because she is Catholic and they were going to extremes- emotional and slight physical abuse. He would ask my sister questions about the Church’s teachings and she would answer him and it would upset the father because he never had anything to say to challenge her answers. He has been living with our grandparents and plans on taking RCIA in October.When he first left home a spiritual advisor told him to keep the lines of communications open with the father, which he has through email. His father wants to meet with him. He does not want to meet with his father because his father will bring his bible ( He is an Elder at his church) and intimidate him and he is just not ready.
The father sent an email today stating that " You are rebelling against God because you left your father and your mother and that God calls children to obey their parents." He then sites Genesis 22, Exodus 20, Deut. 5 Proverbs 1:8, Proverbs 23:22, Mark 7:10 and then he also goes on about that he is his father and it is his responsibility to warn him.
We did find this,​

Q: What does “honor your father and your mother” mean? If the parents are abusive, does this change anything?
”A: St. Paul clarifies the fourth commandment, “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you” (Ex. 20:12), in his letter to the Ephesians: "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right (Eph. 6:1, emphasis added).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains:

As long as a child lives at home with his parents, the child should obey his parents in all that they ask of him when it is for his good or that of the family . . . But if a child is convinced in conscience that it would be morally wrong to obey a particular order, he must not do so . . . Obedience toward parents ceases with the emancipation of the children; not so respect, which is always owed to them. (CCC 2217)​

The question I have is, what can he say to his father that is scriptural on a son leaving is parents home and their guidance?

I hope this makes sense.

God Bless,

GiannaMarie_JMJ

**Q: What does “honor your father and your mother” mean? If the parents are abusive, does this change anything? **

I’ve have always enjoyed reading Ecclesiasticus/Sirach Chap 3: Verses 1 through 20 concerning: ** Duties and Respect Towards Parents
**

**Lessons concerning the honour of parents, and humility, and avoiding curiosity.

1 The sons of wisdom are the church of the just: and their generation, obedience and love. 2 Children, hear the judgment of your father, and so do that you may be saved. 3 For God hath made the father honourable to the children: and seeking the judgment of the mothers, hath confirmed it upon the children. 4 He that loveth God, shall obtain pardon for his sins by prayer, and shall refrain himself from them, and shall be heard in the prayer of days. 5 And he that honoureth his mother is as one that layeth up a treasure.

6 He that honoureth his father shall have joy in his own children, and in the day of his prayer he shall be heard. 7 He that honoureth his father shall enjoy a long life: and he that obeyeth the father, shall be a comfort to his mother. 8 He that feareth the Lord, honoureth his parents, and will serve them as his masters that brought him into the world. 9 Honour thy father, in work and word, and all patience, 10 That a blessing may come upon thee from him, and his blessing may remain in the latter end.

11 The father’s blessing establisheth the houses of the children: but the mother’s curse rooteth up the foundation. 12 Glory not in the dishonour of thy father: for his shame is no glory to thee. 13 For the glory of a man is from the honour of his father, and a father without honour is the disgrace of the son. 14 Son, support the old age of thy father, and grieve him not in his life; 15 And if his understanding fail, have patience with him, and despise him not when thou art in thy strength: for the relieving of the father shall not be forgotten.

16 For good shall be repaid to thee for the sin of thy mother. 17 And in justice thou shalt be built up, and in the day of affliction thou shalt be remembered: and thy sins shall melt away as the ice in the fair warm weather. 18 Of what an evil fame is he that forsaketh his father: and he is cursed of God that angereth his mother. 19 My son, do thy works in meekness, and thou shalt be beloved above the glory of men. 20 The greater thou art, the more humble thyself in all things, and thou shalt find grace before God: **