How a mix of female empowerment and steamy soap operas helped bring down Brazil’s fertility rate

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AngryAtheist8 said:
That has always been the worldly (e.g. dominant) point of view, generally speaking:shrug:
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Yes it has. But generally women had a support amongst themselves against the abuses of male domination. THEY knew they weren’t ‘second class human beings’, even if their men didn’t and they supported each other. The tragedy of feminism is that right when the conscience of the world (including men) appears to have been ready to recognize the injustice of demeaning the real work of civilization (caring for and passing on wisdom, knowledge and character to the next generation), women betrayed women and instead reinforced the notion that being a lawyer is more noble, more honorable and more desirable than being a full time mom.

It’s too bad the opportunity was wasted. Now we have BOTH most men and most women denigrating full time mothering and glorifying careerism, money making.

It IS good that women have opportunities, options and the ability to support themselves independently when they want to or need to. It’s not good that the children of our civilization are being raised by minimum wage strangers and TV sets. We’ll pay the price in a few short generations.
 
manualman said:
Take heart, you moms out there. I, for one, think you’re worth more than all the doctors, lawyers, firemen and engineers put together. It’s suicidal society that says you’re not.
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👍👍👍

I have always said that the single greatest calling is motherhood. Makes sense, as the single greatest saint is one:)

(I’m a dad, BTW 😉 )
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Regarding your second source, I consider Phyllis Schlafly the vilest sort of hypocrite.

Like Ann Coulter she is a woman who has gotten rich and famous making a career out of telling women they shouldn’t try to be rich and famous. Completely ignoring the fact that her career and achievements in the public square were only possible thanks to the victories of feminists in years past (such as the suffragettes).
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Or not.

Maybe women in the United States have always had the opportunity to excel.

According to this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women’s_suffrage

women in New Jersey had the right to vote in 1776.

But maybe even earlier.

My grandmothers were businesswomen … owned and ran restaurants and other businesses. World class chefs along with their husbands.

That was nearly one hundred years ago.

And there were other female family members from the same time period, who did not marry, who also had business careers. And I remember them complaining about the female business owners that they worked for! So, women have owned and run businesses for a very long time.

I have worked in other countries where women have traditionally run all of the businesses … going back centuries.

The telephone company discriminated against women, until they found that women did the work better than underpaid boys. And within a short period of time, women dominated the telephone service business.

cybertelecom.org/notes/telephone.htm

At one time, there were nearly one million women working as telephone operators and supervisors, and in many other jobs within AT&T.

So … not sure where you want to go with this.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Or not.

Maybe women in the United States have always had the opportunity to excel.

According to this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women’s_suffrage

women in New Jersey had the right to vote in 1776.

But maybe even earlier.

My grandmothers were businesswomen … owned and ran restaurants and other businesses. World class chefs along with their husbands.

That was nearly one hundred years ago.

And there were other female family members from the same time period, who did not marry, who also had business careers. And I remember them complaining about the female business owners that they worked for! So, women have owned and run businesses for a very long time.

I have worked in other countries where women have traditionally run all of the businesses … going back centuries.

The telephone company discriminated against women, until they found that women did the work better than underpaid boys. And within a short period of time, women dominated the telephone service business.

cybertelecom.org/notes/telephone.htm

At one time, there were nearly one million women working as telephone operators and supervisors, and in many other jobs within AT&T.

So … not sure where you want to go with this.
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Is there some sort of point to this weird and rambling post?

I never said women have always and everywhere been discriminated against. But the fact that they have been and in many places still are is undeniable.

It also seems clear to me that women who profit off promoting the idea that women shouldn’t have the rights that they themselves enjoy and make use of (such as Ann Coulter and Phyllis Schlafly) don’t deserve to be taken seriously, although I admit that this point is more subjective.
 
AngryAtheist8;8315060 said:
Well, we don’t much control over what they do in Saudi Arabia, do we!

[So, may I ask … what are you so ANGRY about? ]
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AngryAtheist8 said:
It also seems clear to me that women who profit off promoting the idea that women shouldn’t have the rights that they themselves enjoy and make use of (such as Ann Coulter and Phyllis Schlafly) don’t deserve to be taken seriously, although I admit that this point is more subjective.
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Are you sure that these two women actually say the things you allege? Ann Coulter I’ve never read as her condescending attitude bothers me, but I’ve heard Schlafly speak on occasion and never heard her say that women shouldn’t have rights or shouldn’t use them. What I’ve heard her decry is the tendency of feminists to ally with mysoginists to denigrate women who have chosen full time motherhood. Yes, she praises that choice as the highest of all. What’s wrong with that? I salute the brave men who accept a call to the priesthood even though I myself am married. Do you despise me too?
 
manualman said:
Are you sure that these two women actually say the things you allege? Ann Coulter I’ve never read as her condescending attitude bothers me, but I’ve heard Schlafly speak on occasion and never heard her say that women shouldn’t have rights or shouldn’t use them. What I’ve heard her decry is the tendency of feminists to ally with mysoginists to denigrate women who have chosen full time motherhood. Yes, she praises that choice as the highest of all. What’s wrong with that? I salute the brave men who accept a call to the priesthood even though I myself am married. Do you despise me too?
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I am largely indifferent to you to be honest.

As for Schlafly, here are some quotes from About.com (link: atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_PSchlafly.htm) to give you an idea of what kind of fairness and compassion people can expect from her:

1.It’s very healthy for a young girl to be deterred from promiscuity by fear of contracting a painful, incurable disease, or cervical cancer, or sterility, or the likelihood of giving birth to a dead, blind, or brain-damage [sic] baby even ten years later when she may be happily married.

2.We are starting a movement in the state legislatures…to forbid the installation of clinics that dispense contraceptives. [Phyllis Schlafly, President, Eagle Forum]

3.Women have babies and men provide the support. If you don’t like the way we’re made you’ve got to take it up with God. [Phyllis Schlafly, who has had a successful business career and run for public office]

-AngryAtheist8

P.S. Sorry it took me so long to reply, I think my reminder e-mail concerning this thread got sent to my Spam file for some reason.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
… here are some quotes …:

1.It’s very healthy for a young girl to be deterred from promiscuity by fear of contracting a painful, incurable disease, or cervical cancer, or sterility, or the likelihood of giving birth to a dead, blind, or brain-damage [sic] baby even ten years later when she may be happily married.

2.We are starting a movement in the state legislatures…to forbid the installation of clinics that dispense contraceptives. [Phyllis Schlafly, President, Eagle Forum]

3.Women have babies and men provide the support. If you don’t like the way we’re made you’ve got to take it up with God. [Phyllis Schlafly, who has had a successful business career and run for public office]
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  1. I don’t think it is “unhealthy” when I instruct my kids on vacation hikes in the mountains to respect railings where someone has gone to the trouble or erecting them since that generally indicates that there is a good chance that if they climb them they will be dangerously close to steep cliffs, loose rock slopes, landslides and similar such things that can easily kill them. Life is full of dangerous things. Sugar coating the risks isn’t healthy. That’s all I get out of that quote.
  2. Depending on context, seems fine to me. I never understood why my high school (Long ago, even) required signed release from my parents before the school nurse could give me two Tylenol, but a jar of condoms was on the counter and she’d provide to whoever asked.
  3. I can’t tell from the detail you provided. Did she hand off her kids to a minimum wage stranger in order to build her business and get rich? That would seem rather hypocritical. Depending on context, she could be saying something as simple as “Open your eyes. Women are simply better suited for caring for their babies than men are. Even their very bodies testify that this is true.” Are you really arguing? Or are you possibly inferring more than she means?
 
manualman said:
  1. I can’t tell from the detail you provided. Did she hand off her kids to a minimum wage stranger in order to build her business and get rich? That would seem rather hypocritical. Depending on context, she could be saying something as simple as “Open your eyes. Women are simply better suited for caring for their babies than men are. Even their very bodies testify that this is true.” Are you really arguing? Or are you possibly inferring more than she means?
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Actually she did, she employed nannies to watch her children for her while she had a high powered career (here’s a link to an article about the subject: articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/31/opinion/la-oe-daum-column-schlafly-20110331).

Writing books, going on numerous speaking tours, fighting against legislation like the ERA, and becoming a conservative icon. While spreading the message that women belong in the home (instead of getting famous and making money like she was) taking care of their husbands and children.

She is a rank hypocrite, who applies a different standard to herself than she does to other women. Just like the Phyllis Schlafly of our generation, Ann Coulter.
 
That does seem rather odd, doesn’t it? Whether she believes the things she proclaims herself or not, I know that women like my wife who have made the choice of making child rearing their full time career appreciate having SOMEBODY in the limelight defending them.

Most people in the public eye treat full time moms like idiots or fools, mysoginist men and feminist women alike. Perhaps that’s just an inherent hazard of having a celebrity culture.
 
manualman said:
That does seem rather odd, doesn’t it? Whether she believes the things she proclaims herself or not, I know that women like my wife who have made the choice of making child rearing their full time career appreciate having SOMEBODY in the limelight defending them.

Most people in the public eye treat full time moms like idiots or fools, mysoginist men and feminist women alike. Perhaps that’s just an inherent hazard of having a celebrity culture.
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Odd seems too gentle a term.

I stand by my initial assessment of her, Phyllis Schafly is a rank hypocrite.
Apparently being a stay at home mother is good enough for every other woman.
But conservative icons like her deserve better.
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Actually she did, she employed nannies to watch her children for her while she had a high powered career (here’s a link to an article about the subject: articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/31/opinion/la-oe-daum-column-schlafly-20110331).

Writing books, going on numerous speaking tours, fighting against legislation like the ERA, and becoming a conservative icon. While spreading the message that women belong in the home (instead of getting famous and making money like she was) taking care of their husbands and children.

She is a rank hypocrite, who applies a different standard to herself than she does to other women. Just like the Phyllis Schlafly of our generation, Ann Coulter.
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Not sure I understand you.

I am reading “Demonic” by Ann Coulter and it is excellent. Well written and well researched.

www.anncoulter.com
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Not sure I understand you.

I am reading “Demonic” by Ann Coulter and it is excellent. Well written and well researched.

www.anncoulter.com
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Ann Coulter has frequently described women (in general) as weak, inferior, unfit, etc.

Here are some quotes from the woman you apparently admire, concerning her own gender:

I think [women] should be armed but should not vote … women have no capacity to understand how money is earned. They have a lot of ideas on how to spend it … it’s always more money on education, more money on child care, more money on day care.
-Remarks Miss Coulter made on the TV show Politically Incorrect on Feb. 26, 2001.

This is a Youtube video where Coulter explains why women are too stupid/unworthy to vote: youtube.com/watch?v=HmDg9t5M5dI

If we took away women’s right to vote, we’d never have to worry about another Democrat president. It’s kind of a pipe dream, it’s a personal fantasy of mine, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. And it is a good way of making the point that women are voting so stupidly, at least single women.

It also makes the point, it is kind of embarrassing, the Democratic Party ought to be hanging its head in shame, that it has so much difficulty getting men to vote for it. I mean, you do see it’s the party of women and ‘We’ll pay for health care and tuition and day care — and here, what else can we give you, soccer moms?’
-This is from an interview Miss Coulter gave, here’s a link to the interview in question: observer.com/2007/coulter-culture

-AngryAtheist8

P.S. Sorry it took me so long to respond, things are getting busier at work, which means I have less time for stuff like posting on Catholic Answers.
 
Work is so inconvenient that way, isn’t it?

Coulter I’m not interested in defending. Her good points get obscured by her obvious intent to provoke rage rather than thought.
 
manualman said:
Work is so inconvenient that way, isn’t it?

Coulter I’m not interested in defending. Her good points get obscured by her obvious intent to provoke rage rather than thought.
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Yes;)

Its worth noting that as a single, politically active, and successful career woman Ann Coulter embodies a lot of the things in modern Western women that she condemns. I suspect your right and she says stupid and/or appalling things just to get media attention and sell books.

That, or she really believes women as a group are inferior, but she’s the exception. Unfortunately this is entirely possible too.

If women couldn’t be misogynists I doubt we (meaning humanity) would have so much sex-selective abortion in favor of females today.
 
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