How angry am I allowed to be?

[Dauphin]

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[KarenNC]

For more coverage, watch the repeat of The World Over on EWTN this week. Also, you can go to www.catholicleague.org to see some pictures of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.

We must pray for the souls of these drag queens who partook of the holy eucharist unworthily. They have committed an egregious sin and may pay a huge price for their conduct: the loss of heaven.

If the archbishop was really blind to the outrageous attire of these two gentlemen, it is for him to know, but we have to take his word on it. No matter how ludicrous it might be.

I believe that the only way to handle this situation is with lots and lots of prayer, for the offenders and for the archbishop. The sexual abuse scandal has now cost the archdioceses in So. California over $1 billion. No one can fix the incredible problems there but God.

The archbishop’s intention is “for him to know, but we have to take his word on it no matter how ludicrous it might be” but you are willing to say without doubt or reservation that these men took the Eucharist unworthily without, as far as I can see, any statement from them on their intent?

The sex abuse scandal is hardly limited to the archdioceses in Southern California. The problems from that are systemic, not limited to one area, unfortunately.

 

[pete_29]

Take your Rosary, go to their neighborhood, and Pray it just as loudly as you can. Then wait as the msm brands you a intolerant religious fanatic.

 

[SerenaHC]

The archbishop’s intention is “for him to know, but we have to take his word on it no matter how ludicrous it might be” but you are willing to say without doubt or reservation that these men took the Eucharist unworthily without, as far as I can see, any statement from them on their intent?

The sex abuse scandal is hardly limited to the archdioceses in Southern California. The problems from that are systemic, not limited to one area, unfortunately.

Okay. I find it hard to believe the Archbishop didn’t notice the men’s attire, but he says he didn’t, and he’s apologized. So, I can’t substantively say that he did notice the attire.

Those men were kissing each other in the church and being openly disrespectful of the Church and her teachings by cross-dressing and wearing the garb of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence when taking communion; it’s safe to say they knew they were not in a state of grace. They were making a statement with their actions rather than with words. Isn’t that the whole point of their dressing the way they do and naming themselves the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence? Is there really anyone, including the men themselves, who would argue that they consider themselves to be a valid religious order in communion with Rome? Thus, my statement that, based upon the public conduct of these men, they partook of the sacrament unworthily and need prayers to save their souls.

Of course I know the sexual abuse scandal is all across the nation. Here in my archdiocese, we’ve had a number of priests removed and it has been gut wrenching to discover priests we knew and loved were unable to live up to their vows. However, the scandal is mainly one of homosexuality and the flagrant acceptance of homosexuality as a norm seems to be more accepted in the San Fran. area. I don’t think it’s a far stretch to connect acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle with a high incidence of clergy sexual abuse of adolescent boys by homosexual priests. And I can guarantee you, as annoying as my archbishop is, there’s no way he would have given communion to someone attired as those men were because that kind of public conduct is not yet considered acceptable in this region. However, who knows what the next few years might bring.

 

[KarenNC]

Those men were kissing each other in the church and being openly disrespectful of the Church and her teachings by cross-dressing and wearing the garb of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence when taking communion; it’s safe to say they knew they were not in a state of grace. They were making a statement with their actions rather than with words.

OK, I watched the video. I saw the two men in drag stand quietly in the pew. I saw them give air “kisses” near the cheek during what I have seen termed “the passing of the peace” when communicants hug, shake hands, embrace, etc. They were engaged in less physical contact than many of the other parishioners and doing so at an appropriate time. I saw them stand quietly in line and go up to the clergy and accept communion in exactly the same way that the other folks did.

The only man I saw kiss another man on the lips was the clergyman after the service who initiated a kiss on the lips and hug to a man in regular street dress.

Were they making a statement? Almost assuredly, but I haven’t seen anything quoting them as to what that statement was intended to be.

Of course I know the sexual abuse scandal is all across the nation. Here in my archdiocese, we’ve had a number of priests removed and it has been gut wrenching to discover priests we knew and loved were unable to live up to their vows. However, the scandal is mainly one of homosexuality and the flagrant acceptance of homosexuality as a norm seems to be more accepted in the San Fran. area. I don’t think it’s a far stretch to connect acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle with a high incidence of clergy sexual abuse of adolescent boys by homosexual priests. And I can guarantee you, as annoying as my archbishop is, there’s no way he would have given communion to someone attired as those men were because that kind of public conduct is not yet considered acceptable in this region. However, who knows what the next few years might bring.

I would have to say that the issue was one of priests failing to live up to their vows regardless of their sexual orientation and failing to behave in an appropriate way with minor children (pedophilia). It is not simply a matter of sexual orientation. “Flagrant acceptance of heterosexuality as a norm” is common throughout our nation, yet I have not seen huge scandals of heterosexual priests engaging in affairs with women or homosexual ones with adult men (unless that is also going on in large numbers and is being hidden, though I doubt it).

 

[MariaG]

I am terribly saddened that for something to be considered “newsworthy” that violence must happen.

I also find it hypocritical.

For we know that if this same incident had happened in any other faith tradition, the “Hate crime” would have received front page coverage.

I am also deeply disturbed. I think I am more disturbed with the archbishop and the parishners who did nothing to protect our Lord.

 

[iamrefreshed]

As for the rest of it, take it up with the archbishop. If he’s decided it’s okay, why should the media be reporting it? Again, it’s not their job to read up on canon law. If the controversy becomes newsworthy (to anybody besides a disgruntled or gruntled Catholic), then the press has an interest.

Exactly why is this newsworthy?

I think catholics are held to a double standard.

ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071013/vatican_suspension_071013/20071013?hub=TopStories%between%

 

[Mirdath]

Exactly why is this newsworthy?

I think catholics are held to a double standard.

Apples and oranges. A person’s worthiness to receive the Eucharist is one thing, the suspension of a high-ranking official is another entirely. Calling it a ‘top story’ is reaching, though.

If the archbishop got suspended or resigned over distributing communion to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, we’d have something that a newspaper might be interested in, but hardly a headline story.

 

[Valke2]

In another thread I read that Jesus gave the Euchriast (sp?) to Judas even though he Judas intended to betray him.

Given that example, what is wrong with what the archbishop did?

 

[iamrefreshed]

Apples and oranges. A person’s worthiness to receive the Eucharist is one thing, the suspension of a high-ranking official is another entirely. Calling it a ‘top story’ is reaching, though.

If the archbishop got suspended or resigned over distributing communion to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, we’d have something that a newspaper might be interested in, but hardly a headline story.

The portion of your quote which I highlighted is the problem.

If it involves defaming the catholic church in anyway it becomes ‘newsworthy’ by MSM. It’s sad really but we catholics have dealt with it for 2000 years now

 

[Mirdath]

The portion of your quote which I highlighted is the problem.

If it involves defaming the catholic church in anyway it becomes ‘newsworthy’ by MSM. It’s sad really but we catholics have dealt with it for 2000 years now

You aren’t special. Scandal sells

 

[jmcrae]

In another thread I read that Jesus gave the Euchriast (sp?) to Judas even though he Judas intended to betray him.

Judas had not yet sinned - he was still in a state of grace. He still had the option to change his mind and remain in the state of grace.

Given that example, what is wrong with what the archbishop did?

They were already committing sin - they were representing themselves as members of a group that is at odds with Catholic teaching. This has nothing to do with speculation about whether they themselves are actually sodomites (although I think it’s a reasonable assumption) - the fact that they are representing themselves as members of a group that thinks sodomy should not be considered a sin puts them outside the Catholic Church.

(If someone came to Mass wearing distinctively Jewish garb, and represented himself as someone who does not believe that Jesus was actually God, it would be equally sacreligious for him to present himself for Holy Communion.)

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Well, earlier it was said a couple of people didnt like san francisco and I have to add my voice to that part anyway. I feel oppressed there. I been 6 times and just cannot relax there.

Ive been standing alone on a corner in NYC and felt fine, so its not a big city thing.

The place plain feels wrong.

 

[Pax]

I went to the “Walk for Life” in San Francisco earlier this year. The opposition to the walk was a scary testimony to what goes on in SF. I can’t help but look at this physically beautiful city as a serious den of iniquity.

 

[KarenNC]

If it involves defaming the catholic church in anyway it becomes ‘newsworthy’ by MSM. It’s sad really but we catholics have dealt with it for 2000 years now

So you are saying now that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence weren’t defaming the Catholic Church in any way, since if they were the media would have been all over it because anything that defames the Catholic Church in any way is automatically newsworthy?

I have to admit I am confused at the end result you are seeking in this situation. It’s bad and disrespecting the Catholics if the media reports on it, but it’s also bad and disrepecting the Catholics if the media doesn’t report on it? Is this only the national media or is it different if the local media reports on a local story and the national media does not give it equal coverage?

As to the two examples, let’s see:

1. a senior Vatican official says on public television that his having sex with other men (not only breaking his vows of celibacy, but breaking a lot of other basic Catholic rules as well) is not a big deal.

vs.

1. an archbishop in an area of California evidently needs a more effective staff or a change in his eyeglass prescription because he can’t differentiate between his regular congregants and two flamboyantly dressed notorious drag queens who have participated very publicly in activities that are less than complimentary to the Catholic Church.

I would have to say that the first sounds like a more widely newsworthy story.

 

[Dolores49]

Interesting viewpoint. I just spent a week in San Francisco about three weeks ago. My 7 year old daughter and I went all over the city using public transportation (buses, streetcars, subway, etc). Other than having to explain to her that graffiti (which we saw over by Haight Ashbury) is simply a sign of lack of respect for oneself as well as a lack of respect for public property, there was nothing that caused any problems or concern for us. It was a beautiful city and we found the people to be helpful and courteous overall (more so than in Boston, based on our trip there last year).

The worst behavior I observed while I was there was some middle-school kids on the bus teasing each other. There was certainly no one “sodomizing each other on the street.”

Okay, fair enough…for a tourist!

Hey, I was born and raised in Berkeley in 1949. The little town I knew as a child is gone, okay? So, for a native I still say, San Francisco is and has always been cursed, okay?

 

[RunningLawyer]

Hey, I was born and raised in Berkeley in 1949. The little town I knew as a child is gone, okay? So, for a native I still say, San Francisco is and has always been cursed, okay?

I was born in San Francisco and raised in Berkeley in the 1960s. I could not agree with you more! But Berkeley still has the best weather.