How can a sola scriptura proponent know that all revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle?

[joe370]

Hey Jon…

JonNC;7600659]Sort of like my confusion about which Church that makes the claim “one true Church” is really it. As far as you misrepresenting it, I think you often speak in your threads of what some protestants think sola scriptura is. So, in that sense, you are not misrepresenting. I’m just making sure the lurkers know that not all of us take that view.

Sometimes I do feel like, I myself am misrepresenting the practice of SS, but it is hard not to when there are multiple definitions of SS, but I do my best not to. Jon, I certainly understand and can appreciate your confusion as to which church rightfully makes the claim to be the “one true Church.”

And the Reformation further caused division in His Church. You see, Joe, I view the “guided by the Holy Spirit” phrase as far more long-term. And I view the Church as much more than one institution.

I don’t believe that Jesus’ Mystical Body, the church is just one institution. I believe that Jesus’ one Mystical Body the church, is now Jesus’ fractured Mystical Body comprised of many many Bodies instituted by men as opposed to God: one Body established by God on Pentecost, which split into two separated bodies, and the rest established later, by men. There was just one Body, then two, and now hundreds and hundreds of independent and autonomous Bodies, and I do believe the Holy spirit works endlessly to bring all of these independent and autonomous Bodies, both Catholic and non-Catholic, back together, which is why I understand why you use the phrase, long term.

We both agree that Jesus founded just one united Body of believers built on the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the divine Cornerstone, Head and Savior, which was/is to avoid dissension and division, and we both realize that people from within Jesus’ one Mystical Body have fractured that one Body of believers, for one reason or another, which has led to quite a few independent and autonomous Body of believers, and of course each of these new Body of believers are one and united as well, and I whole-heartedly believe that all of these independent and autonomous Body of believers, be it Catholic or non-Catholic comprise the one, (albeit terribly fractured) - Mystical Body of Christ of which Jesus is the Cornerstone, Head and Savior. Jesus’ Mystical Body, like a an old dilapidated edifice on the brink of collapse, will never collapse just as long as Jesus continues to be the divine Cornerstone holding His Mystical Body together. However, to me anyway, the key to maintaining the the fullness of truth, (within Jesus’ fractured Mystical Body comprised of both Catholic and non-Catholic churches) - which was bestowed upon the 12 apostles when Jesus’ fledging church leaders were filled with the Holy Spirit -** lies in the necessity** of that one unbroken Body, founded on Pentecost, to maintain continuity, solidarity, indivisibility, oneness and uniformity, doctrinally speaking, through every generation until Jesus’ return, so that the holy spirit can continue to safeguard that one unchanging deposit of faith in that one Body which belongs to Jesus, and that one unbroken Body established by Jesus, on Pentecost, is now merely one of many Bodies that now comprise the fractured Mystical Body of Christ of which He is the Head and Savior, but to me, the key to the preservation of the fullness of truth, in its entirety, lies within that one unbroken Body founded by Christ on Pentecost, which is now just one of many broken bodies that comprise the one fractured Mystical Body of Christ.

Why move with a 50-50 chance of still being wrong? The HP uses all our communions to bring salvation, understanding Christ’s desire that we be one.

So you don’t believe that the fullness of truth in its entirety, is safeguarded, thanks to the never ending guidance of the holy spirit, in one of the many churches in the world today?

 

[joe370]

Johnny, I said:

Okay, but what if those similarities, that you mentioned (not the differences) - begin to be challenged by a new crop of churches in the future? Should those similarities now become irrelevant differences, just as is the case in the protestant sphere regarding, this is my body vs this is a symbol of my body?

To which you said:

Is this the same question you asked before? If you would like to discuss my response given previously, I welcome it.

Here is your response given previously:

No. Remember, the praxis of Sola Scriptura-which I hate using, because I don’t ascribe to the definition as taught by modern evangelicals-only says that all we need for our faith and salvatation are contained in the scriptures. I really have started to believe that Sola Scriptura is not an accurate way of describing my praxis in Christianity.

I’m not seeing the response to my original question.

Well yes and no. They have authorities that guide the direction of the denomination, and formulate their teachings/doctrines, give those teachings to their members, and for the purposes of organization and accountability. These groups do not claim to be infallible, so they do not have one in the same sense as the Catholic church. In the Assemblies of God-a group I was once a part of, its the General Council of the Assemblies of God.

Johhny, is it, yes, all protestant churches, regardless of denomination, were founded by men either in the 16th, 17th…21st century and all of those churches possess an authoritative teaching office, or no, all protestant churches, regardless of denomination, were NOT founded by men either in the 16th, 17th…21st century and all of those churches possess an authoritative teaching office? Please, forget about whether or not any one church can teach in-errantly for the moment.

Doctrinal differences should not stand in the way of Christian unity.

The only way that is possible is if every Christian compromises on what they believe, when it comes to doctrinal differences - correct?

No. Thats not what I said. It depends on the nature of the disagreement. When others deny a major point of the creed, (ie the incarnation, the trinity) that is when the real problem occurs.

Sorry I misunderstood. Sola scriptura gives each and every sola scriptura proponent the right to interpret scripture and the right to embrace or deny what you call a major point of the creed! No SS proponent is bound to obey anything **other than scripture alone! **

Since it was formed by an ecumenical council, the creed can show us who is in and who is outside of the body of Christ. How was the creed formed, by the church, interpreting the scriptures, guided by the Holy Spirit.

Which councils do you consider to be ecumenical?

 

[joe370]

Hey Johnny…

Well yes and no. They have authorities that guide the direction of the denomination, and formulate their teachings/doctrines, give those teachings to their members, and for the purposes of organization and accountability. These groups do not claim to be infallible, so they do not have one in the same sense as the Catholic church. In the Assemblies of God-a group I was once a part of, its the General Council of the Assemblies of God.

Johhny, is it, yes, all protestant churches, regardless of denomination, were founded by men either in the 16th, 17th…21st century and all of those churches possess an authoritative teaching office, or no, all protestant churches, regardless of denomination, were NOT founded by men either in the 16th, 17th…21st century and all of those churches possess an authoritative teaching office? Please, forget about whether or not any one church can teach in-errantly for the moment.

The only way there can be unity in light of doctrinal differences is if every Christian compromises on what they believe, when it comes to doctrinal differences - correct?

No. Thats not what I said. It depends on the nature of the disagreement. When others deny a major point of the creed, (ie the incarnation, the trinity) that is when the real problem occurs. Since it was formed by an ecumenical council, the creed can show us who is in and who is outside of the body of Christ. How was the creed formed, by the church, interpreting the scriptures, guided by the Holy Spirit.

Sorry I misunderstood. Sola scriptura gives each and every sola scriptura proponent the right to interpret scripture and the right to embrace or deny what you call a major point of the creed! No SS proponent is bound to obey anything **other than scripture alone - correct? **

Which councils do you consider to be ecumenical?