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glow8worm
Guest
I know that Jesus did everything He did cause I just believe it… but some people challenge me saying “You weren’t there!” There are other references that tell about His life besides the Bible, right?
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Gerry_Hunter
Guest
Yes, there are other references,but we should never let people discount the record in Holy Scripture just because it is found there. On the contrary; the text in Holy Scripture is far and away the most carefully preserved text in human history.
As for the “you weren’t there” argument, people who trot it out apply a standard that is not only unrealistic, but one that they would never think of applying to any other aspect of history. For example, no American alive today was “there” at the Battle of Saratoga, but do they really doubt that it happened? Or World War I, for that matter.
Holy Scripture’s accuracy, as a preserved text, is manifestly demonstrable. Why not demonstrate it to those who dismiss it, since the onus is on them to prove its discredibility. And we must not be intimidated by the special pleading of unrealistic tests of the historicity of events.
Blessings,
Gerry
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Church_Militant
Guest
I’ve always heard that there’s more evidence for Jesus’ life than for Napolean…
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Theodora
Guest
These same people challenging you must read newspapers and listen to the radio. Do they believe what they read and hear? And if they do, why would they? They werent’ there!
Many of Jesus’ followers lost their lives in testimony of what they believed Jesus did and said. They might not have been there, but it was passed on to them from original eyewitnesses.
There was a Jewish historian by the name of Jospehus who wrote about Jesus.
Your challengers probably have not given much thought about Jesus, the Christ, that’s why they give you such a flippant answer. Picture yourself in their shoes: if you don’t know much about Jesus what will convince you of the things he did and said?
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AmericanAtheist
Guest
You really can’t even prove he existed. There is no creditable evidence. Jesus (much like Santa Claus) is more of a story as opposed to fact. Some say the character of Jesus is a combination of Pagan. Greek and Roman Characters. Look to science and history for your answers.
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Gerry_Hunter
Guest
Science has nothing to contribute to the answer. The question is not in the realm of science at all. (I know; I’m a scientist
) Using it on questions like this is abusing it, like using a screw driver to open a paint can – it’s not what it’s made for.And the answer of history is YES!!
When I joined squadron in 1965, I was the 4th Gerry and the third Hunter among the aircrew on the station. But I was no composite, in spite of the correlations.
In science, we know the danger of drawing conclusions from apparent patterns and correlations. For instance, if you mix two radio frequency signals, you get (in the first order) four output signals: the two originals, their sum, and their difference. Now the digits in pi,on testing, meet the criterion of randomness. So does the sequence of each digit with one added to it. Now if one mixes signals with those values, one of the outputs will be:
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …
and if someone picks that up and goes "Aha! We have an intentionally ordered signal here, " he has goofed big time. All he has found is the difference of two random signals. Just the same type of error one would make if he looked at the 3 Gerrys and 2 Hunters who were on the station before I was, and concluded I must be a composite.
Blessings,
Gerry
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RobedWithLight
Guest
That reasoning, if taken to its logical conclusion, would mean that nothing in our history books can be regarded as true, because we cannot go back to the past to check out our facts. Hence, the study of history would be ignominiously relegated to the status of a fairy tale and all historians would be demoted to the status of deluded fools.
Gerry
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glow8worm
Guest
I know the Bible is the best reference… but I want to go back with another source besides something that comes from the Church. I know that there are references, I just don’t remember where I found them before. This lady says that Jesus is a pegan story… I KNOW its not. But I want to be well prepared to prove my point.
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Ignatius
Guest
If we could prove it, it wouldn’t be “Faith”. To those who believe, no proof is necessary; to those who refuse to believe, no proof is sufficient.
God Bless.
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Fidelis
Guest
Church Militant:
The example I heard is Julius Caesar.
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Will
Guest
I would try the Christian History Project Books. at
christianhistoryproject.com/index.html
They might have the source material listed for you.
I remember reading about them in the First Volume.
I know there is a Roman letter somewhere that mentions him but I don’t remember the specifics.
Or Just ask an CA Apologist here for references.
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space_ghost
Guest
if they apply the doubting Thomas rule. (if i haven’t seen it, I can’t believe it), well, your fighting an uphill battle…
i don’t know how they could believe any history that they didn’t live through… all they will ever have is a written historical record, as well at the repeated memory of those before us…
just like scripture and the Body of Christ here on earth…
yep, good luck… your gonna need it… or maybe the Holy Ghost will give you a hand…
i don’t know how they could believe any history that they didn’t live through… all they will ever have is a written historical record, as well at the repeated memory of those before us…
just like scripture and the Body of Christ here on earth…
yep, good luck… your gonna need it… or maybe the Holy Ghost will give you a hand…
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Will
Guest
Atheistism though ignorance of History. Hm.
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Verbum
Guest
Hi Glow___,
The “you weren’t there” argument can be applied to any historical event.
But we believe as we do because we got it from people who were there – the apostles. They told others who then told you. It does not matter that 65 or more generations have gone by. The Holy Spirit has no problems with time.
Faith is a gift that helps you to accept this testimony.
Verbum
The “you weren’t there” argument can be applied to any historical event.
But we believe as we do because we got it from people who were there – the apostles. They told others who then told you. It does not matter that 65 or more generations have gone by. The Holy Spirit has no problems with time.
Faith is a gift that helps you to accept this testimony.
Verbum
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Strider
Guest
And some say Neil Armstrong acted it all out in a Hollywood studio. I seldom listen to “some.”
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the_oneders
Guest
ok, ok, lets be realistic here. do you really, honestly believe in Christ or is it that you have a strong feeling because you forced it in there so you could make yourself believe everything is going to be ok. be totally honest with yourself, dont just dismiss this. think about it. I’m Catholic, but lately I’ve been wondering if I truly believe in God, or if it’s just because i was raised like this. Think about it, Muslims, Jews, and Catholics, we all truly believe in God. Put yourself in the shoes of another who truly believes in their religion. what if YOU were raised like that. Would you still believe in Christ?
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serendipity
Guest
I think the fact that he lived about 2,000 years ago and that we know so much about him, proves that he was some one amazing. He was not a conventional governmental ruler who had statues and books written about himsel by decreee. He impressed so many people by his example that they chose to tell his story for years, despite the threat of social stigmatism, ostracism, or even death.
In Acts, when the apostles of the early church began to preach, the Pharisee Gamaiel, told the Sanhedrin to be careful how they approach the apostles, citing examples of false prophets that they had been preaching in recent times, but whose followings had evaporated upon their deaths. Saying that (in Acts 5:38-39): “What I suggest, therefore, is that you leave these men alone and let them go. If this enterprise, this movement of their is of human origin it will break up of its own accord; but if it does in fact come form God you will be unable to destroy them. Take care not to find yourself fighting agianst God.”
I love this little passage, because it makes so much sense. I don’t understand how “the movement” would have grown so strong and organized, if it were not the work of God.
In Acts, when the apostles of the early church began to preach, the Pharisee Gamaiel, told the Sanhedrin to be careful how they approach the apostles, citing examples of false prophets that they had been preaching in recent times, but whose followings had evaporated upon their deaths. Saying that (in Acts 5:38-39): “What I suggest, therefore, is that you leave these men alone and let them go. If this enterprise, this movement of their is of human origin it will break up of its own accord; but if it does in fact come form God you will be unable to destroy them. Take care not to find yourself fighting agianst God.”
I love this little passage, because it makes so much sense. I don’t understand how “the movement” would have grown so strong and organized, if it were not the work of God.
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gardenswithkids
Guest
The book The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel is an easy read that presents lots of credible evidence about Jesus. He’s a former newspaper journalist who is now protestant pastor. The book is pretty generic Christian, but there’s some protestant accent. It’s a sort of detective story with interviews of experts. I think it’s a good book that might help.
One thing in the book (and lots of other places) is Josephus. Josephus was a first century historian who was not Christian. He mentioned Jesus in his writings of history, and very few people got their names in history scrolls back then. This doesn’t ‘prove’ Jesus did what we believe, but it does support the notion that something worth noting took place.
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glow8worm
Guest
Hey… Thankyou! Thats just what I was looking for!
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