How can the Church make definitive statements about OTHER religions?

[JerryZ]

Well, my question was more about the basis of making that kind of claim, not the claim itself. I did not/don’t fully understand the angle the Church was coming from in making this declaration.

To make my concern more clear: what if an Islamic scholar made the claim that Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God; on what grounds is the Church authoritatively telling such an Islamic scholar that he is incorrect about his own religion? (If that’s what is being told here).

Or more to the point, does the Church’s authority extend to making definitive declarations about the doctrines of other religions? I was under the impression that the Church was only infallible on issues of faith (that is the one true Catholic faith, not just any and all different religions) and morals.

I just don’t see what the Church is basing the claim on, different religions are other belief systems entirely, so I don’t see what such a declaration by the Church is being predicated on if it is a statement about the religion of Islam itself.

Your is an interesting question indeed and probably one that many Catholics and protestants as well as believers of other world religions would ask themselves.

The issue is, number one: What is their understanding for the word “GOD”,

And the Church investigates through her Magisterium precisely what the other religion, with which SHE intends to establish a dialogue, understand about the nature of “GOD”.

For example when speaking with representatives of the Jewish faith, there is no ambiguity there, for their GOD is the GOD of Abraham, Jacob, Moses.
And we KNOW that HE is our GOD too.

Well this process can be carried out with any other religion and this is how the Church makes the determination.
YES the Muslim faith adores the same GOD.
They have some errors in their understanding of GOD, but it is the same GOD. They do not believe in a GOD that was “created”, Their metaphysical understanding is correct.
But since they do not have the full revelation as we have their knowledge and understanding of GOD is lacking.

The Jewish understanding of GOD is lacking, they do not accept Jesus.

This is how, I hope this explains HOW the Church makes a determination.

…

 

[graciew]

Well, my question was more about the basis of making that kind of claim, not the claim itself. I did not/don’t fully understand the angle the Church was coming from in making this declaration.

To make my concern more clear: what if an Islamic scholar made the claim that Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God; on what grounds is the Church authoritatively telling such an Islamic scholar that he is incorrect about his own religion? (If that’s what is being told here).

Or more to the point, does the Church’s authority extend to making definitive declarations about the doctrines of other religions? I was under the impression that the Church was only infallible on issues of faith (that is the one true Catholic faith, not just any and all different religions) and morals.

I just don’t see what the Church is basing the claim on, different religions are other belief systems entirely, so I don’t see what such a declaration by the Church is being predicated on if it is a statement about the religion of Islam itself.

Thank you for further explaining.
I understand and would be playing by ear even after reading. So I do not know the answer.
I have read that the Church and their scholars meet periodically , but not exactly how representative they are.That they have a common interest in dialogue and truth and fellowship.
But not the answer to your question really.
Bless you Barricade !

 

[Genesis315]

This is a question that has puzzled me for a while now. This link catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/do-muslims-worship-the-same-god-catholics-do
is an article written by Tim Staples citing the Catechism’s declaration that Muslims worship the same God as Catholics. Now I’m not disputing this specific point, but I’m just puzzled as to how the Church presumes to make definitive statements about OTHER religions such as Islam in this example.

I just don’t see how this falls under the faith and morals criteria of infallibility when it comes to Church doctrines considering it is a declaration about a *different *religion is it not?

I’m sure there are Muslims out there who will insist that they do not worship the same God as Christians mistakenly thinking that God as trinity is some form of polytheism which they reject. So why and on what basis does the Church presume to speak for Muslims (many of whom might disagree with the Church’s stance) about their own religion?

I just don’t understand how the Church can make binding declarations or something of that sort about other religions in something as central as the catechism.

Can someone shed some light on this/clear up any confusion?

The Church is the rightful judge of what is true and what is false about God and His revelation. The same Church that can say certain doctrines in the Koran are false can say certain doctrines in it are not false. It’s why the Church can also do things like declare whether other religions have valid sacraments or not. This was an error of the Jansenists, who argued the Church could make abstract judgments, but not make judgments about the meaning of particular, specific propositions. These kinds of judgments are called judgments of “dogmatic facts.”

Now, while I am probably the biggest defender on here about the proposition that Muslims worship God, I don’t think the Church has a made a definitive judgment in this case (unlike, say, it’s judgments concerning the valid baptisms of various heretical groups or the invalid orders of Anglicans), but it could do so because the Church’s infallibility is not limited to truths directly revealed by God. It also includes those truths tied to revealed truth by logical or historical necessity and which are necessary for defending and expounding upon revealed truth.

The ability to know of God without faith (since you need to know of God before you can place your faith in Him and believe what He has revealed) and how this can be done is the prime example of a doctrine defined by the Church in this way. The Church could certainly therefore pass judgment on a particular proposition regarding this truth. It is also a matter of morals, specifically concerning “religion”–the virtue defined as the honor to be paid as a matter of justice to God as creator and first principle of all things. It’s corresponding vices are idolatry and atheism. The Church needs to be able to judge whether something is idolatry or not.

Muslims assert certain propositions about God. The Church can therefore judge whether they acknowledge the one true God or whether they are idolators. The Church needs to be able to judge what is truth and what is error, even among non-Catholics due to the implications of the Great Commission.

 

[Usagi]

In the case of Muslims worshipping the same God as Christians and Jews, I don’t think the Church is trying to apply her authority to interpretation of the Quran or the beliefs of Muslims themselves.

She is rather asserting her own judgment that, by Catholic standards, Islam is a religion that worships the One True God, albeit without full understanding of His nature and will. She is not attempting to speak for Muslims.

Indeed, it could be argued that the Church is not here making a theological point at all, but a historical one. Just as we know that the Jews worship the true God because of our historical descent from them (even though, like the Muslims, they deny the divinity of Christ and may even regard the idea as blasphemous to their concept of God), we know that the Muslims worship that God too, because Islam was built from bits and pieces of Judaism and Christianity. The one God they acknowledge is the one that revealed Himself to Abraham and sent Jesus, We disagree strongly on some elements of their understanding of Him (as they and the Jews both disagree with us), but we can see from purely human evidence that we are all trying to worship the same entity.

Usagi