How can we prove that existence is linear and not circular?

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Ben_Sinner

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As Christians, we believe that there had to be a first, uncaused cause for existence. That cause is God. Existence had a beginning and it will have an end.

Eastern religion and philosophy believe that existence is circular. It’s been around for eternity and had no beginning and will have no end. It was never caused…it just “IS”…that is their way of solving “How did something come from nothing?” question, because existence didn’t come from anything. It was always there.

How do we refute that claim?
 
As Christians, we believe that there had to be a first, uncaused cause for existence. That cause is God. Existence had a beginning and it will have an end.

Eastern religion and philosophy believe that existence is circular. It’s been around for eternity and had no beginning and will have no end. It was never caused…it just “IS”…that is their way of solving “How did something come from nothing?” question, because existence didn’t come from anything. It was always there.

How do we refute that claim?
Here is an outline for how I would approach the problem:

First of all, perhaps the Eastern philosophers did not notice, but they have, in fact, proposed an uncaused cause. They have simply misidentified it as the universe itself, or the Brahman, or what have you.

The trick is then to show that the attributes of the Uncaused Cause do not match those of the Eastern philosophies.

It should be noted that the Eastern philosophies have never demonstrated the cyclical nature of being—they have effectively simply postulated it without proof. Their conception of the universe is not unlike that of some of the Presocratic philosophers (most notably Empedocles).

They—like the early Greeks—have taken a characteristic of some natural phenomena (the seasons, birth and death, etc.) and extrapolated it (without demonstration) to all of existence.

(In fact, with all due respect, Eastern philosophies in general do not operate like a true “science” in which conclusions must be rigorously demonstrated. Often, the very rigorousness of reason is called into question.)

Even those natural phenomena, however, are not entirely cyclical. The seasons return every year, but each year has its own particular characteristics that distinguish it from other years (drought vs. inundation; heat vs. cold; etc.). New generations are born, but the individuals are unique (and even if we accept reincarnation, the reincarnated persons have new and unique experiences).

In any case, the fundamental problem with the Eastern claim is that the universe we know is always an admixture of what Aristotle called act and potency. It actually exists in a certain way right now, but it is tending to a different state (a potential state at the moment).

For example, it is now summer (in the northern hemisphere); but in a few weeks it will be fall. The northern hemisphere is actually in summer and potentially in fall.

That fact does not need to be demonstrated, because it is immediately evident to anyone who observes the world we live in.

The next point is more subtle: only actually existing things can change potency into act. Potentially existing things don’t exist yet, so they (obviously) can’t do anything.

So, if the Uncaused Cause is truly uncaused, that means that no actually existing thing is acting upon it (much less, potentially existing things!). But since potency can never be actualized without the action of some actually existing thing, it follows that the Uncaused Cause is entirely actual; it has no admixture of potency whatsoever.

Hence, the Uncaused Cause cannot be the universe itself, but must be something outside that universe.
 
This has nothing to do with linearity and circularity. (I’m just sayin’)
As Christians, we believe that there had to be a first, uncaused cause for existence. That cause is God. Existence had a beginning and it will have an end.

Eastern religion and philosophy believe that existence is circular. It’s been around for eternity and had no beginning and will have no end. It was never caused…it just “IS”…that is their way of solving “How did something come from nothing?” question, because existence didn’t come from anything. It was always there.

How do we refute that claim?
W do not want to refute that claim!

We want to make sure we do not mis-state the Christian position.
As Christians, we believe that there had to be a first, uncaused cause for existence. That cause is God. Existence had a beginning and it will have an end.
This is not correct.

*As Christians, we believe that there had to be a first, uncaused cause for -]existence/-] *creation.

*That cause is God.

-]Existence/-] *Creation *had a beginning and it -]will/-] *may have an end.

God himself is existence itself – I AM THAT I AM.

*Existence *(God) *had -]a/-] *no *beginning and it *(He) *will have -]an/-] *no end.

tee
 
:twocents:

Hinduism has no magisterium. There are many stories, interpreted in many ways. The mythology not only unites people in a common vision that defines the culture and the person’s place in it, but also speaks to ontological reality. We are one dimensional beings trying to understand the cube of reality. The beings and images found in the stories are things that we can imagine, projected upward to that which contains and transcends us.

The one story that resonates with me has to do with Shesha an eternal primal being, who is in the form of a multi-headed snake, floating in an infinite sea of bliss, holding all the planets of the universe on his hoods and constantly singing the glories of the God Vishnu from all his mouths. When he uncoils, time moves forward and creation takes place; when he coils back, the universe ceases to exist. Vishnu rests on Shesha, who is both fully independent servant to the supreme personality of the godhead and a manifestation of Vishnu, appearing by his own will. He is that which remains when all else ceases to exist, infinite and transcendental to time and space. Vishnu is pure consciousness and when he sleeps a lotus emerges from his navel. Brahma the creator of and the universe itself rests on the lotus. Universes come and go, the eternal transcendent Divinity remains, One, simple in its complexity of relation which it is, unchanged, everpresent, all knowing and the Centre from which all that is, was and ever will be, springs forth.

View attachment 23412

Sorry, I don’t get the point of the question. Time is linear, moving from a beginning to an end, while resting on eternity.
 
As Christians, we believe that there had to be a first, uncaused cause for existence. That cause is God. Existence had a beginning and it will have an end.

Eastern religion and philosophy believe that existence is circular. It’s been around for eternity and had no beginning and will have no end. It was never caused…it just “IS”…that is their way of solving “How did something come from nothing?” question, because existence didn’t come from anything. It was always there.

How do we refute that claim?
One need not refute the claim (s) from the East. The circular argument (no pun intended) can be compounded upon, and maintained with an Eastern understanding of the existence of God. Here I introduce two subjects that are not in opposition of each other.

One, the Eastern religion understanding of God’s eternal Essence does not come down to us, the Essence of God is eternal with no beginning and no end.

Because God is eternal existing, all things visible come from the invisible. Here we introduce those things which are eternal (invisible) existing, compared to those things which came into existence (visible).

That which exist eternally God, is existence itself, invisible omnipotent power and being.is the substance from which the things visible came into space and time.

In essence, God being existence itself is an agreeable understanding, to which the Eastern circular argues, that “Existence did not come from anything”, because God is existence itself.

Two, If God is existence itself without beginning or end. Then existence = God is always there.

A spirit being, such as an angel is invisible but conscience, has a beginning from existence itself. Thus existence always is.

**Now one can raise an argument against the Eastern thought, from antiquity, that relates to our subject and can refute the Eastern circular existence argument.

The subject of procession of existence, that gives rise to debate when procession of existence relates to the procession of the Trinity. When the Father never proceeds and the Son is begotten of the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.

It is the procession of existence which, I believe you are looking to refute the Eastern religion philosophical argument of circular existence. I believe scholastics along with Church doctrine in the Filioque refutes the Eastern circular argument of existence in eternal procession**.

I would love to engage in such a debate.

Peace be with you
 
It seems to me that if existence was circular that makes me question all the more why is existence circular, what drives it to repeat itself and to what end? It seems to me such an elaborate scheme must be directed by something or someone. And just saying it just is, does not make the question go away.
 
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