How "catholic" are the Orthodox churches?

[Mickey]

I’m sure I’m biased

Yes.

 

[Alexios]

Newsflash to those who think it’s only Western Europe which has turned against God: Russia is STILL, to this day, aborting itself out of existence, moreso than any country in Western Europe I think. The government is so desperate for more little Russians that it is paying women $20,000 to have a child.

The delusion never ends. Places like Russia have a LONG way to go.

 

[Mickey]

Places like Russia have a long way to go.

We all have a long way to go.

 

[Jofantioch]

Perhaps an associated question would be in order. Do the Orthodox churches have religious orders that are not monastic?

Yes, most of our priests are not monastic. To us, monasticism is a celebate life. There are many kinds of monastics, but not formal “rules” as such. I know my Roman brothers and sisters have Franciscan, Carmelite, Trappist, etc. In Orthodoxy there is no difference between men and women monastics. They wear the same clothing and live the same life. They live “the angelic life”, without gender roles. They are a living embodiment of what makes a great man and woman, a total love and devotion to God.

Our male and female monastics live in gender-segregated living arrangements. We have “hermits” and “sketes” who live in the wilderness and alone; there are also monastics who live in service to individual parishes or cities and/or in official communities.

Hope this helps.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Claire from DE;3331203:

Perhaps an associated question would be in order. Do the Orthodox churches have religious orders that are not monastic?

Yes, most of our priests are not monastic. To us, monasticism is a celebate life. There are many kinds of monastics, but not formal “rules” as such. I know my Roman brothers and sisters have Franciscan, Carmelite, Trappist, etc. In Orthodoxy there is no difference between men and women monastics. They wear the same clothing and live the same life. They live “the angelic life”, without gender roles. They are a living embodiment of what makes a great man and woman, a total love and devotion to God.

Our male and female monastics live in gender-segregated living arrangements. We have “hermits” and “sketes” who live in the wilderness and alone; there are also monastics who live in service to individual parishes or cities and/or in official communities.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. Very interesting.

 

[Cathlacostal]

I’m still laughing that this is in the Non-Catholic Religions section. And the grudge still rears it’s ugly head. Give it up. The Orthodox are about as catholic as one can get. I recieved a letter from baptist missionaries in Africa asking for Bibles for a village they’d come upon that they’d been beaten to by the Orthodox and they somehow neglected to give all the converts a Bible. Bibles were sent courtesy of the Gideons in the native tongue.Great swelling words came speaking against the Orthodox from the pulpits of the home Baptist churches.
I recieve another letter about a month after the bibles were recieved. They were looking for instruction books on teaching those villagers to read. Hmmm.Seems someone put the cart before the horse.

 

[Jofantioch]

I recieve another letter about a month after the bibles were recieved. They were looking for instruction books on teaching those villagers to read. Hmmm.Seems someone put the cart before the horse.

Orthodox Missionaries teach Jesus. Only He saves, not a book. We wrote the book, we don’t worship it. Only the Holy Spirit can truly convey the truth. It would be great if the villagers were literate, but it was not the case. I applaud my Orthodox brothers and sisters for sharing the good news on people’s own terms. It’s not an American approach, but it’s the right one.

 

[Alexios]

There are Catholic monk-hermits too, living in the wilderness. Even in America. I read an article about one in the Archdioecese of…D.C.? I think?

 

[StMarina303ad]

When I think of the Orthodox churches, they seem local to me. The Catholic church has much missionary activity. We consider that the faith is meant to be universal, for all people. In other words, ‘catholic’. How do the Orthodox churches implement the command to go and teach all nations?

In the past, to give an example: Sts. Cyril and Methodius - both Eastern Orthodox Christian Missionaries created a written language for the Slavs and converted thousands during their lifetime. Also due to the Missionary works of the Church of Constantinople, the entire continent of Russia was converted to Orthodox Christianity beginning in 988. The have their own Patriarchate now. Russian Orthodox Christian Missionaries like Sts. Innocent and Herman converted the native Alaskans - I think it was before the United States was even established - definately before Alaska was bought from Russia and made a State.

Currently, the Orthodox Church has a huge charity organization which meets the needs of the poor both physical and spiritual through out the world called: OCMC (Orthodox Christian Mission Center) - their website is: ocmc.org/ Also, in the United States there are Maternity Homes like Martha and Mary House in San Diego - they help unwed pregnant mothers - also physically and spiritual (one of their first residences was from Japan and she converted to Orthodox Christianity, I think she was a Buddhist) - their website is: marthaandmaryhouse.org/

These are simply a few examples of so many Missionary Projects initiated by the Orthodox Churches - in the past and in the present.

Many in the U.S. today, who are not Orthodox, tend to forget that Orthodoxy is fairly new in the U.S. (save Alaska) and that many of the Orthodox Churches here are still Missions themselves. Some of the Orthodox parishes in areas of the U.S. are getting more established and are more involved than others, but even those Missionary ones - still celebrating Divine Liturgy in houses are still collecting food for the poor and their members are volunteering time to go on Missions to Central America and other various places through out the world.

 

[SiempreFiel]

In the past, to give an example: Sts. Cyril and Methodius - both Eastern Orthodox Christian Missionaries created a written language for the Slavs and converted thousands during their lifetime.

Sts. Cyril and Methodius lived before the Great Schism; ergo, they cannot be said to be exclusively “Eastern Orthodox missionaries”. They are venerated by both the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox. In fact, Pope John Paul II declared them co-patrons of Europe, together with Saint Benedict of Nursia.

 

[Formosus]

Its a little unfair to critcize lack of missionaries among the Orthodox. There seems to be a strong missionary presence within the southern United states at least.

The lack of over seas empires really is one of the main reasons for lack of missions in third world countries. Yes today there are no more imperial powers etc etc. But all these missions within Africa and Asia on the Catholic side were established initially when the Western powers controled these territories. Also, though this was mentioned already, you do not really see a lot of Eastern Catholic missions over seas either (if any for that matter), though that might have more to do with the Latin church restricting missionary activity rather then a lack of ability to send missions.

In an example of missionary activity though, the Assyrian Church of the East(while not part of the OO or EO communion) did indeed have missions that extended all the way to China and India hundreds and hundreds of years before Western Christians even attempted to evangelize outside of Europe.

 

[StMarina303ad]

Sts. Cyril and Methodius lived before the Great Schism; ergo, they cannot be said to be exclusively “Eastern Orthodox missionaries”. They are venerated by both the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox. In fact, Pope John Paul II declared them co-patrons of Europe, together with Saint Benedict of Nursia.

This shows your lack of knowledge of Church History - let me fill you in.

Sts. Cyril and Methodius were born and raised in Thessalonika in Greece and were under Patriarchate of Constantinople, not Rome. They were diffinately “Eastern Orthodox Missionaries” - they were sent on their Mission by Roman Emperor (in Constantinople, the Capitol of the Roman Empire) Michael III and St. Photius the Patriarch of Constantinople at the request of Prince Rastislav of Great Moravia to bring Orthodox Christianity to his land.

The Catholic Church in Germany attacked them for their Missionary Work. The Roman Pope of the time was Nicholas I - who was the first of all of Roman Popes to try to claim Universal Jurisdiction (prior Roman Popes, like St. Pope Gregory had “from the chair” condemned any Bishop from calling himself “Bishop of Bishops” or calling himself “Universal Bishop”.). Nicholas I attempted to end the Missionary efforts of Sts. Cyril and Methodius, but God allowed Nicholas to die before he was able to destroy the work of God. (God never Wills the death of any human being, but he does allow it to accomplish His Will).

I find the Catholic Church to be ironic in the way they often persecute (and sometimes kill) certain people and then centuries later claim those same individuals as “their” Saints…they did this with Sts. Cyril and Methodius and with Joan of Arc - they torchured her and killed her by burning her alive and now they call her St. Joan. Go figure?

 

[StMarina303ad]

Its a little unfair to critcize lack of missionaries among the Orthodox. There seems to be a strong missionary presence within the southern United states at least.

The lack of over seas empires really is one of the main reasons for lack of missions in third world countries. Yes today there are no more imperial powers etc etc. But all these missions within Africa and Asia on the Catholic side were established initially when the Western powers controled these territories. Also, though this was mentioned already, you do not really see a lot of Eastern Catholic missions over seas either (if any for that matter), though that might have more to do with the Latin church restricting missionary activity rather then a lack of ability to send missions.

In an example of missionary activity though, the Assyrian Church of the East(while not part of the OO or EO communion) did indeed have missions that extended all the way to China and India hundreds and hundreds of years before Western Christians even attempted to evangelize outside of Europe.

In Lynchburg, VA there has been for decades a tiny Greek Orthodox Church. And in the last 5 years or so an entire Protestant Church in Lynchburg - Pastor and his Congregation have been converted the Orthodox Christianity. I believe they came into the Orthodox Church under the Patriarchate of Alexandria.

 

[Harpazo]

In Lynchburg, VA there has been for decades a tiny Greek Orthodox Church. And in the last 5 years or so an entire Protestant Church in Lynchburg - Pastor and his Congregation have been converted the Orthodox Christianity. I believe they came into the Orthodox Church under the Patriarchate of Alexandria.

Shlom lekh,

Really? That’s amazing. I know there is an Antiochian mission that uses the WR in Lynchburg. Do you know the status of the OCA and Bulgarian missions in Roanoke? I learned that the priest for the Bulgarian mission was a Protestant convert. I am of the opinion that they only way Protestantism will disappear is if they convert to Apostolic Christianity, i.e., Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Therefore, I support Protestants converting to Catholicism or Orthodoxy. I honestly don’t prefer which one they go to, as long as they get the Sacraments.

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew

 

[SiempreFiel]

Sts. Cyril and Methodius were born and raised in Thessalonika in Greece and were under Patriarchate of Constantinople, not Rome.

I did not deny this historical fact.

They were diffinately “Eastern Orthodox Missionaries” - they were sent on their Mission by Roman Emperor (in Constantinople, the Capitol of the Roman Empire) Michael III and St. Photius the Patriarch of Constantinople at the request of Prince Rastislav of Great Moravia to bring Orthodox Christianity to his land.

Saints Cyril (Constantine) and Methodius were missionaries of the Eastern Church, but not of the Eastern Orthodox Church. In other words, Cyril and Methodius cannot be said to have been “Orthodox” Christians, in the current sense of the word because they were always in union with the the Successor of Peter. To say that they were “Eastern Orthodox Missionaries” implies that they were not in union with the Bishop of Rome.

The Roman Pope of the time was Nicholas I - who was the first of all of Roman Popes to try to claim Universal Jurisdiction (prior Roman Popes, like St. Pope Gregory had “from the chair” condemned any Bishop from calling himself “Bishop of Bishops” or calling himself “Universal Bishop”.).

The truth is that Pope St. Gregory I did not deny the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. In fact, he stated that the Roman Church is “the head of all the churches” and that it is the See of Peter “to whom was committed the care and primacy of the whole Church”.

Nicholas I attempted to end the Missionary efforts of Sts. Cyril and Methodius, but God allowed Nicholas to die before he was able to destroy the work of God.

Please cite your historical sources for your claim that Pope Nicholas I wanted to “destroy the work of God”.

I find the Catholic Church to be ironic in the way they often persecute (and sometimes kill) certain people and then centuries later claim those same individuals as “their” Saints…they did this with Sts. Cyril and Methodius and with Joan of Arc - they torchured her and killed her by burning her alive and now they call her St. Joan. Go figure?

The Church has rightfully corrected its incorrect or misguided judgments on several occasions. What’s wrong with that? The Orthodox Churches have made incorrect or misguided judgments too, right?

 

[StMarina303ad]

Saints Cyril (Constantine) and Methodius were missionaries of the Eastern Church, but not of the Eastern Orthodox Church. In other words, Cyril and Methodius cannot be said to have been “Orthodox” Christians, in the current sense of the word because they were always in union with the the Successor of Peter. To say that they were “Eastern Orthodox Missionaries” implies that they were not in union with the Bishop of Rome.

Sts. Cyril and Methodius’ Patriarch of Constantinople, St. Photius was not in union with the Patriarch of Rome, Nicholas - you really need to read history. Now, it is true that they had not officially “ex-communicated” each other yet, but they were far from being in communion - similar to how the Two Churches, the one of Constantinople and Rome, are now - not in communion with each other, yet not officially excommunicated with each other either.

The truth is that Pope St. Gregory I did not deny the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. In fact, he stated that the Roman Church is “the head of all the churches” and that it is the See of Peter “to whom was committed the care and primacy of the whole Church”.

Again, read history. This is what St. Pope Gregory the Great said: “I say it without the least hesitation, whoever calls himself the universal bishop, or desires this title, is, by his pride, the precursor of Antichrist, because he thus attempts to raise himself above the others. The error into which he falls springs from pride equal to that of Antichrist; for as that Wicked One wished to be regarded as exalted above other men, like a god, so likewise whoever would be called sole bishop exalteth himself above others.” - my bolding. St. Gregory the Great (yes he is honored as a holy Saint in the Orthodox Church) used very harsh language against the idea that the Patriarch of Rome should ever claim to be “above”, or supreme, the other Patriarchs/Bishops.

Please cite your historical sources for your claim that Pope Nicholas I wanted to “destroy the work of God”.

Seriously, pick up a history book. It won’t hurt you I promise. It may cause you to rethink what the Roman Catholic Church is currently claiming as fact when you actually read what some of the early Popes actually taught.

Why don’t you start with: The Lives of the Pillars of Orthodoxy - Saints Photios of Constantinople, Gregory of Palamas & Mark of Ephesus by Holy Apostles Convent of Buena Vista, CO. In the section of St. Photios you will find out about Pope Nicholas and what he said and did as Pope of Rome. In the back of the book you will also find the joint Orthodox response to the outragous claim of one of the Popes of more recent history who claimed to be “God on Earth” and the like. Anyway, a good place to start.

 

[SiempreFiel]

Sts. Cyril and Methodius’ Patriarch of Constantinople, St. Photius was not in union with the Patriarch of Rome, Nicholas - you really need to read history. Now, it is true that they had not officially “ex-communicated” each other yet, but they were far from being in communion - similar to how the Two Churches, the one of Constantinople and Rome, are now - not in communion with each other, yet not officially excommunicated with each other either.

This is a historical fact: Cyril and Methodius were in communion with the Bishop of Rome; otherwise, Pope Hadrian II and Pope John VIII would not have defended St. Methodius against the accusations of the German princes.

This is also a historical fact: The Patriarch of Constantinople at that time, Photius, was not in communion with Rome.

Again, read history. This is what St. Pope Gregory the Great said: “I say it without the least hesitation, whoever calls himself the universal bishop, or desires this title, is, by his pride, the precursor of Antichrist, because he thus attempts to raise himself above the others. The error into which he falls springs from pride equal to that of Antichrist; for as that Wicked One wished to be regarded as exalted above other men, like a god, so likewise whoever would be called sole bishop exalteth himself above others.” - my bolding. St. Gregory the Great (yes he is honored as a holy Saint in the Orthodox Church) used very harsh language against the idea that the Patriarch of Rome should ever claim to be “above”, or supreme, the other Patriarchs/Bishops.

You fail to mention the historical context of what Pope Saint Gregory said. Pope Saint Gregory was responding to the fact that Emperor Maurice granted the title “ecumenical patriarch” to John the Faster, Patriarch of Constantinople. Thus, he condemned the tile not because he was denying the primacy of the Apostolic See, but because he was simply reaffirming that individual bishops are not merely auxiliaries of the popes or the patriarchs. In other words, he condemned the tile to reaffirm that individual bishops are real bishops, real successors of the holy apostles. In fact, in other of his writings, Pope Saint Gregory maintains that the Church of Rome holds the primacy among all the other churches.

Seriously, pick up a history book. It won’t hurt you I promise. It may cause you to rethink what the Roman Catholic Church is currently claiming as fact when you actually read what some of the early Popes actually taught.

Why don’t you start with: The Lives of the Pillars of Orthodoxy - Saints Photios of Constantinople, Gregory of Palamas & Mark of Ephesus by Holy Apostles Convent of Buena Vista, CO. In the section of St. Photios you will find out about Pope Nicholas and what he said and did as Pope of Rome. In the back of the book you will also find the joint Orthodox response to the outragous claim of one of the Popes of more recent history who claimed to be “God on Earth” and the like. Anyway, a good place to start.

A good place for you to start would be by reading The Keys of the Kingdom: A Tool’s Witness to the Truth by the eminent scholar Father Stanley Jaki, OSB.

 

[mardukm]

This is a historical fact: Cyril and Methodius were in communion with the Bishop of Rome; otherwise, Pope Hadrian II and Pope John VIII would not have defended St. Methodius against the accusations of the German princes.

Let’s not forget that it was the bishop of Rome who gave the Pallium to Sts. Cyril and Methodius (sister StMarina, if you are not aware, that means that Sts. Cyril and Methodius were made bishops by the Pope). He even made St. Methodius an ARCHbishop! The Pope also approved the use of the Slavonic liturgy.

I’d be interested to hear sister StMarina’s responses.

Blessings,
Marduk