How do i correct someone without sounding judgemental?

[Catholic_Ninja]

Good Morning all,

I have a friend who has been going through some “confusion” in her sexuality. She has been bouncing back and forth from gay to strait for a long time and has recently “come out” and stated her orientation. She claims to be Christian and uses a warped interpretation of Romans that states he was referencing pagans, not all Christians to back herself.

“The scriptures, like the Roman’s debate that keeps coming up with this issue. It’s amazing that something Paul was referencing in regards to pagan activities, prostitution can suddenly be used to reference modern day homosexuality. Paul was not making sweeping generalizations condemning any and all sex activity, when put into historical and religious context he was against idolatry. Reading into the text what was not said is called eisegesis. This is not a good way to interpret scripture. As for the choice issue that others keep bringing up the APA has shown being a homosexual is not a mental disorder nor is it a choice. So…if it’s not a choice then a homosexual can be a Christian too. If Christians today would realize that homosexuality is a state of being and identity that God has given to some people then their lifestyle is not a willful disobedience to God’s laws and commandments. It’s who they are. Its strange how even ministers, bishops and pastors from all different faiths have come forward stating they accept homosexual Christians to their church and no longer see it as living in sin but other groups continue with their hatred The only thing homosexuals can continue to do is get the law on their side and take it one step at a time like the people born to slavery did. Christians finally got the message regarding slavery let’s hope they can get the message on homosexuality too.”

My question is how do i go about correcting someone with this mindset about their error? I have tried talking and she keeps quoting Matthew 7:1-2 saying i am judging her.

Stop judging, that you may not be judged.
For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.

(NAB)

Any advise will be helpful, i’ve tried quoting scripture and using logic but nothing seems to get through to her

 

[Rence]

I would just show her the parts of the CCC that pertain to sexual orientation, and an encyclical if you can find one. The Catholic Church preceded the Catholic bible, and the Scriptures say not to go by just Scriptures alone but my other written and oral teachings. Therefore the CCC might be easier for her to read and understand.

I find that it’s not useful to use Scripture with a lot of issues because for example, you can find literally 2-4 verses on an issue, that has been translated by the Church to 2-4 paragraphs of rules that apply to those 2-4 short sentences, and it’s hard to justify to someone who doesn’t believe in it in the first place. So I don’t even bother with Scripture anymore…simply because I can’t answer the, “I don’t understand how they come up with that teaching from those 2 verses”, or “I don’t understand how they interpret that, it doesn’t sound right”.

But maybe others will have better advice for you it’s good to get a lot of different answers and choose what works better for you.

 

[nickybr38]

Good Morning all,

I have a friend who has been going through some “confusion” in her sexuality. She has been bouncing back and forth from gay to strait for a long time and has recently “come out” and stated her orientation. She claims to be Christian and uses a warped interpretation of Romans that states he was referencing pagans, not all Christians to back herself.

My question is how do i go about correcting someone with this mindset about their error? I have tried talking and she keeps quoting Matthew 7:1-2 saying i am judging her.

Any advise will be helpful, i’ve tried quoting scripture and using logic but nothing seems to get through to her

I would hazard a guess that only the Holy Spirit could speak to her at this point. So pray for her. Pray hard, pray long and pray unceasingly. Do NOT condone her activities (by seeming to agree with any ‘lifestyle’ choices she may make). Remind her that just because she has a desire does NOT mean she should act on it.

We all have desired sex at some point, that doesn’t mean we should have sex with anyone we see that incites desire.

I don’t know… that’s all the advice I have. ):

 

[bnbkaine]

Besides praying, you can tell her that you are not judging her, you are merely trying to point out that Catholics do not support an active homosexual lifestyle. She can be as gay as she wants to be, just as long as she does not have sex outside of marriage which is only between a man and a woman.

 

[Catholic_Ninja]

Firstly, thank you all for your responses

Rence;
She is not Catholic, so i don’t think quoting the CCC or an encyclical would help, but thanks for the advise.

Nicky;
Thanks, i will, and have been praying for her. If i could ask for others to offer their prayers that would be great

bnbkaine;
I know, i’ve tried that as well, i’m just stumped I know that marrage is only between a man and a woman, but i dont know if she intends to get married to the other woman she’s in the relationship with. I would assume (but we all know the saying about assuming…) that she is having sex with this woman… but i dont know

 

[St_Francis]

There are none so blind as those who will not see…

Judging in that phrase refers to judging the state of a person’s soul, which judgement is reserved to God. But we judge people all the time, right? When your friend refers to those “hate-filled” churches which continue to consider homosexual activity as sinful, she is judging them, right?

I try to keep things peaceful by referring to “what Scriture or the Church teaches” instead of making blanket statements about what the person I am talking with is doing. Then we are discussing the rules rather than an actual person’s behavior. the problem is that all too many people in our society have accepted the view that right and wrong are fluid and subject to interpretation.

And the other thing I do is restrict what I say: I tell them what the Church teaches (or whatever), I answer any questions they may have about what I’ve said, but I do not debate. I do not try to convince them and get embroiled in a long crazy insane argument. (I’m not aways good at sticking to this rule, and I am not so strict about it when it comes to politics).

 

[ab75]

Good Morning all,

I have a friend who has been going through some “confusion” in her sexuality. She has been bouncing back and forth from gay to strait for a long time and has recently “come out” and stated her orientation. She claims to be Christian and uses a warped interpretation of Romans that states he was referencing pagans, not all Christians to back herself.

My question is how do i go about correcting someone with this mindset about their error? I have tried talking and she keeps quoting Matthew 7:1-2 saying i am judging her.

Any advise will be helpful, i’ve tried quoting scripture and using logic but nothing seems to get through to her

Honestly, I would just tell her that you’d continue to pray for her and ask her to continue to pray for understanding. There may be some half-truths to translation errors, etc, but it is probably a stretch. There is little doubt she understands the teaching of the church, and has simply choosed to reject it … showing her the catechism or convincing her what the church teaches probably will not change anything, I’m sure she understands that.

I personally, would say to understand that you love her, and will support her in any way possible, but just can’t support that act. Say your encouraged that she’s not giving up on her journey to walk with Christ, and encourage her to continue to pray for the spirit to discern her will. Continue to point out that Jesus promised if we sincerely ask, seek, knock for the Holy spirit and guidance, he will give it.

Let her know that you’ve prayed about this, and tried to look beyond simply what the Church teaches (because she’s not going to put faith in that), and that your prayer and understanding of scripture and nature will not allow you to approve of the actions. It’s difficult to determine how involved to be with her, but make it known you will be there for her and love her, without approving of the actions. It’s a difficult situation, but you may need to pray for God to show you the way, and trust God to show her the way.

 

[seagal]

You could point her to 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10

…Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. [emphasis mine]

St. Paul is not talking to pagans here, he is talking to the Church in Corinth – Christians, in other words… I don’t know how it could be any more clear.

 

[ab75]

You could point her to 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10

St. Paul is not talking to pagans here, he is talking to the Church in Corinth – Christians, in other words… I don’t know how it could be any more clear.

Homosexuals and other “liberal” Christians will say that it was never translated Homosexual until this century, and the greek means young male prostitutes and dirty old men (they also may say the same about “fornication” that it only recently translated that way, and would discuss more about Christians continuing to have sex with prostitutes of pagan gods.)

They will have an answer, which is why I think it’s clear to try and make it a matter of the heart and encourage them to seek God’s spirit through prayer.

 

[seagal]

Homosexuals and other “liberal” Christians will say that it was never translated Homosexual until this century, and the greek means young male prostitutes and dirty old men (they also may say the same about “fornication” that it only recently translated that way, and would discuss more about Christians continuing to have sex with prostitutes of pagan gods.)

They will have an answer, which is why I think it’s clear to try and make it a matter of the heart and encourage them to seek God’s spirit through prayer.

Just out of curiosity, is there any basis for that claim?

 

[Catholic_Ninja]

Just out of curiosity, is there any basis for that claim?

Well i looked it up out of curiosity as well:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Douay-Rheims:
[9] Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, [10] Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God. [11] And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.

KJV
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

New Jerusalem Bible
9 Do you not realise that people who do evil will never inherit the kingdom of God? Make no mistake – the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, the self-indulgent, sodomites,
10 thieves, misers, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Some of you used to be of that kind: but you have been washed clean, you have been sanctified, and you have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and through the Spirit of our God.

NAB
9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

NIV
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

He is right, the “older english” translations (Douay and KJV) do not use homosexual in the verse… hmm

 

[ab75]

Just out of curiosity, is there any basis for that claim?

I don’t know greek, so I really can’t answer. From what little I’ve looked, there may be some basis in regard to the translation in corinthians, however there are still a lot of other Biblical “problems”. In many areas, we probably do focus on homosexuality, because it’s something few of us struggle with, and miss what lead down that path (Greed, pride, etc.).

The thing is, while it’s not easy to live within the “rules”, it is still easier to love within the rules, than to truly live for Christ (at least for me). To totally trust God, to totally love others (all give, with no expectation of take), to allow God to transform us, etc. Because of this, I think the best way is encourage prayer for spirit and following Christ. She knows you and most of “Christianity” don’t accept that action. All you can really do is not support the action, and try to encourage her to grown in Christ, and trust him to show her. Others would take a different approach and they may be correct, but this is what I’d do.