How do Jews disagree with Jesus as the messiah?

[KathleenGee]

Interesting take on seeing both texts as equal.

I am hoping to return to this thread to read well all the posts. I would like very much to understand the Jewish stand on not recognizing Christ as Messiah.

Also there are the Hebrew Catholics who are 100% in communion with the Catholic Church and under the jurisdiction of their local bishops. They speak of other Jews who have come to Christ but did not join the Catholic Church.

There is also the comment, hope not to repeat anyone from before, that the Lord hardened the hearts of the Jews so that the Gentiles could come in…the two lamps of God’s light…Judaism and Christianity…just musing here.

 

[mercytruth]

Interesting take on seeing both texts as equal.

I am hoping to return to this thread to read well all the posts. I would like very much to understand the Jewish stand on not recognizing Christ as Messiah.

Also there are the Hebrew Catholics who are 100% in communion with the Catholic Church and under the jurisdiction of their local bishops. They speak of other Jews who have come to Christ but did not join the Catholic Church.

There is also the comment, hope not to repeat anyone from before, that the Lord hardened the hearts of the Jews so that the Gentiles could come in…the two lamps of God’s light…Judaism and Christianity…just musing here.

This hardening of the hearts is something that can happen to anyone of us who think we possess the truth and righteousness of God within ourselves and of ourselves exclusively.

Though the apostle Paul spoke of this hardening of the hearts of his Jewish brethren leading to the salvation of the Gentiles, he no doubt was referring to Isaiah 6. Isaiah asks God, how long? The reply was when the stump brings forth branches. One would think the stump may represent the diaspora since Bar Kochba. The bringing forth of the branches
may represent the ingathering, the aliyah to Israel that we have seen in our generation.

Father Elias Friedman of Mt.Carmel, Israel was a Jewish doctor from South Africa, (as I recall) who converted and became a Carmelite monk following WWII. He wrote a book, titled, “Jewish Identity”. He also wrote a nine day novena to St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein, the brilliant phenomenologist turned Carmelite nun). The loyalty and the pain that both she and her Orthodox mother shared during Edith’s gradual conversion and eventual joining of the Carmelites is very moving. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross was writing “Science of the Cross” an overview of St. John of the Cross when she was arrested and subsequently sent to Auschwitz.

my musings also

God’s peace

micah

 

[rinnie]

G-d has given Israel permission to be ruled by a king throughout its history (see the books of Deuteronomy and Samuel, for example). The king never ruled in place of G-d but in the name of G-d. The same is true of the Messiah, a human king who will rule over a world of peace with justice for all in the name of G-d, the Almighty King. Similarly, the Torah, holy as it is as the Word of G-d, is not G-d Himself. BTW, the study of Torah will not cease when the Messiah comes, but will increase.

meltzerboy why would you feel the study of the Torah would increase when Jesus comes back? I mean why would we need to study the Torah when we will have God Almighty here in our world to explain everything to us.

And would not the Torah me (I hate to use this word but Useless to us). I mean its going to be the New Heaven and New Earth, That means no sin, no suffering, etc. All of old would have passed, do you not agree?

 

[TheAtheist]

meltzerboy why would you feel the study of the Torah would increase when Jesus comes back? I mean why would we need to study the Torah when we will have God Almighty here in our world to explain everything to us.

And would not the Torah me (I hate to use this word but Useless to us). I mean its going to be the New Heaven and New Earth, That means no sin, no suffering, etc. All of old would have passed, do you not agree?

Its because of the centrality of the Torah to the Jewish faith - or at least some versions of it.

I wonder sometimes if the statements made about the Koran (ie: that it pre-existed the rest of Creation in Heaven with Allah) were simply meant to mirror the relationship traditional Jews had with their Torah.

 

[KathleenGee]

MercyTruth…

Thanks for your sharing…yes, we can all close and become hardened to the Lord, just look at the lost vocations.

I have read parts of ‘Jewish Identity’, and have read about Fr Elias through the Hebrew Catholic community. I am working so much but have a great desire to find time to read ‘Israel and the Church’. Wish I could have gone to their conference last year.

Are you a member/associate?

 

[mercytruth]

MercyTruth…

Thanks for your sharing…yes, we can all close and become hardened to the Lord, just look at the lost vocations.

I have read parts of ‘Jewish Identity’, and have read about Fr Elias through the Hebrew Catholic community. I am working so much but have a great desire to find time to read ‘Israel and the Church’. Wish I could have gone to their conference last year.

Are you a member/associate?

No I am not, I spoke with him at the monastery on Mt.Carmel, and there is a very personal meaning of connection between the novena and St. Theresa Benedicta of the Cross.

God’s peace be with you,

micah