How do Non-Catholics stay in a "state of a grace"

[PJM]

=followingtheway;8348367]First of all let me say that I’m Catholic and I don’t where Non-Catholics go when they die. For all people who say they go to Heaven. How do they stay in a state of a grace, if they don’t confess their sins or repent?

Most don’t but are unaware of it having brought into man-made religions tell them “trust me”; would I lie to you:shrug:

The Bible is exceeding clear on what God demands and expects. If your expetations are lower than God’s you may want to rethink your position.

[B1John.1 Verses 8 to 10:** "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. ** There is sin which is mortal**; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, ** but there is sin which is not mortal. **

John.20 Verses 20 to 23]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. ** Jesus said to them ** again, “Peace be with you. ** As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

May God grant you wisdom so that you can find HIS peace!

Pat

 

[LegoGE1947]

One can only agree. My problem, philosophically, is the number of souls OSAS has condemned to a situation of unrepentant death and that is pretty scary for its purveyors.

By staying in the “state of confusion” the “state of bewilderment” maybe even the “State of Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc.”

 

[Yankeegator7]

When I was in rebellion against the Church before I came home to Our Father’s House, I was so smug in my OSAS thoughts and beliefs. As I grew older and started to understand Authority and John 20:20-23, I started to understand that these men, The Apostles, were the first Bishops of God’s Church, the New and Everlasting Israel. Almighty God gave them the power to forgive sins in his name. He gave them this Authority and this authority has passed down to this very day. You have to tell the sin for one with authority to hear the sin and forgive the sin in Christ’s name. When I became Catholic, it was the most liberating thing ever!!! I try to go once a month these days.

 

[GaryTaylor]

GaryTaylor, this is the message when I clicked on your link.

GONE

This link is not authorized by Yahoo!
If you would like to continue to this link’s intended destination at your own risk, click here.

Here is google from a different comp. Its authorized, Yahoo requires a “here” click I use few different servers, pending location. Sorry. Its will just pop-up here.

google.com/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_(Christianity)&sa=U&ei=b7J0Ts-INsrW0QHHsrnYDQ&ved=0CBEQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEJU1X_uR4W7Z2_6LUZFMYGl_twwA

Peace

 

[PJM]

=ltwin;8351051]Hmm, I’d have to take issue with your characterization. I have no doubts that there are people who believe in OSAS, and I’m not making excuses for them. But all evangelicals are not OSAS. They may believe in the Security of the Believer, but the important thing to find out is if they believe in the “Conditional Security of the Believer,” which is an important distinction. Lots of evangelicals are Pentecostals now, and I know for a fact that we do not believe in once saved always saved. However, I realize that some Baptists and others do.

Another thing I think is a misunderstanding is the lack of penitential or confessional rite. You are correct, there is none in an evangelical church. But that does not mean we don’t believe in confession of sin. It is just personalized as opposed to institutionalized. We confess our sins and pray to God the Father in the name of his son Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit for forgiveness. And if we have something against a person we are taught to go to that person and makes things right.

Another thing, in a lot of churches there use to be a practice (not so common anymore) of public testimony and confession. Testimony was telling something good that God had done in your life or a struggle you were going through but have felt God’s presence strengthening you through it. Confession was obviously publicly confessing sin in your life. So confession in church is not entirely foreign to evangelical churches, but if it happens it is a lot more spontaneous and ad hoc than in the Catholic Church.

And for the record, I was never taught that I was forgiven of future sins at salvation. I was taught that I have to live a life of repentance and reliance on God’s grace everyday. I was taught that nothing can separate me from the love of God, but that is not the same as saying that if I refuse to live a life of consecration to God and his purposes that I will still be saved.

And so my friend; what Jesus Christ himself commands and dictates is of lesser importance than what the man who founded your religion tells you is true? The book of Leveticus chapters 3 and 4 give much evidence of the role of OT priest in the forgiveness of their sins. Christ carries this pracrice forward with the addition of GRACE ofered and recevied to those who OBEY His command. Further your betting your soul on human precepts. ONLY the Catholic Sacraments as Instituted by Christ offer TRUE and complete known forgiveness.

** John.20 Verses 20 to 23**]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. ** Jesus said to them ** again, “Peace be with you. ** As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

You many wish to rethink your position and pray about what GOD WANTS YOU TO DO.

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[afiala2]

Most don’t but are unaware of it having brought into man-made religions tell them “trust me”; would I lie to you:shrug:

The Bible is exceeding clear on what God demands and expects. If your expetations are lower than God’s you may want to rethink your position.

[B1John.1 Verses 8 to 10:** "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. ** There is sin which is mortal**; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, ** but there is sin which is not mortal. **

John.20 Verses 20 to 23]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. ** Jesus said to them ** again, “Peace be with you. ** As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

May God grant you wisdom so that you can find HIS peace!

Pat

Well put, Pat.

 

[afiala2]

As Pat brought up, the fact that there are mortal or deadly sins and venial or non-deadly sins is important to understand.

OSAS either believe once you are “saved” mortal sins don’t exist for you anymore or God won’t hold them against you anymore from that point on. Or never believed there were mortal sins to began with other than not “asking Jesus into your heart”, the deadly sin of omission. Or commandments optional, actions don’t affect grace.

Faith Alone believers will often say things like well because that person fell away they never really ever had “faith” implying that the person’s “faith” saves them, Not God’s Grace, THE Faith, and a person’s adherence to the commandments. Only deadly sin, not having “faith”. Or commandments optional, actions don’t affect grace so long as you have “faith”. The same “faith” someone had that fell away who you say never really ever had “faith”.

The Bible doesn’t say the commandments are optional to obtain eternal life. Everyone sins, but thanks be to God not all sin is mortal. But concerning deadly sins, how is this rectified outside the Catholic Church?

What is other non-catholic teachings/theology, including other variations of faith alone (there are probably over 30,000 of them), on how God’s Grace and mortal sin affect a soul or how do non-catholics stay in the “state of grace” (OP)?

 

[20purple02]

I am glad you asked your question. Your comment would be somewhat offensive if it were not made in ignorance. Do you believe that only Catholics go to heaven? Do you believe that only Catholics confess and repent? I am not Catholic but my husband is and has been his entire life. I come to this wonderful website to learn and ask questions. I respect his faith as he respects mine. I hope I answer your questions and open your mind too.

The Bible clearly states what a person must do to be saved. Romans 10:9-11 reads *“That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” * NIV

I do not confess my sins to a priest or to any human being. I confess to God. Nowhere in the Bible does it state for sin to be forgiven it must be confessed to a priest. I am sorry but that is not in the Bible. If this were true, how would people who live with no access to a priest confess? Are they doomed because they live without priests for confession?

“*My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” I John 2:1 NIV

Jesus Christ is our Advocate. I do not confess to another human being who has the same free will and sins as we all do. No human can stay in a "state of grace.” The only human to live without sin is Jesus Christ. He became man to save us all on the cross and He did so without sin. No one else can do what He did because no one else is holy.

“Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify your name? For You alone are holy.” Revelation 15:4

I appreciate the chance to give you some scripture references that I believe answer your questions. I hope I was not over zealous. Gail*

 

[20purple02]

“The Eucharist is at the heart of the spiritual life.”

I would completely disagree with this statement. When I attend mass with my husband I see folks leaving church after communion but before mass is over. Is this why they leave early?

The heart of a spiritual life is the relationship with Jesus. We were created in God’s image. We are to grow in our spiritual life by becoming “more like Him.”

God would have none to perish. Free will and whether or not to believe in God is the big decision. Reject God in your life and worse to die rejecting God is the sure way to eternal separation from Him.

A relationship is what God wants from us. Daily communication with Him and obedience. It is very simple and has absolutely nothing to do with communion.

 

[Josh316]

“The Eucharist is at the heart of the spiritual life.”

I would completely disagree with this statement. When I attend mass with my husband I see folks leaving church after communion but before mass is over. Is this why they leave early?

The heart of a spiritual life is the relationship with Jesus. We were created in God’s image. We are to grow in our spiritual life by becoming “more like Him.”

God would have none to perish. Free will and whether or not to believe in God is the big decision. Reject God in your life and worse to die rejecting God is the sure way to eternal separation from Him.

A relationship is what God wants from us. Daily communication with Him and obedience. It is very simple and has absolutely nothing to do with communion.

Here is the problem with this statement. Firstly, since the Eucharist IS Jesus, if one states that the heart of a spititual life is the Eucharist it’s the same as saying that the heart of a spiritual life is Jesus. If one makes the Eucharist the heart of their spiritual life then they will make sure to be in a sinless (at least mortal) state upon receiving our Lord in the Eucharist and therfore be living a good Christian life. So all in all if one centers their life around Jesus they will automatically be centering it around the Eucharist.

 

[afiala2]

I am glad you asked your question. Your comment would be somewhat offensive if it were not made in ignorance. Do you believe that only Catholics go to heaven? Do you believe that only Catholics confess and repent? I am not Catholic but my husband is and has been his entire life. I come to this wonderful website to learn and ask questions. I respect his faith as he respects mine. I hope I answer your questions and open your mind too.

Catholic FAQ #10: Do Catholics believe they are the only ones who will go to Heaven? youtube.com/watch?v=5cTr8OoGMA0
Only Catholics in Heaven! youtube.com/watch?v=2Dcfj0PU_JQ
Protestant Errors youtube.com/watch?v=eluVxhM2qJo&feature=related
Without the truth humanity is lost. Sorry if the truth is offensive to you, I mean no offense. Jesus was put to death for telling the truth, I guess he offended people too. I am more concerned about helping you get to heaven then if it offends you that I am trying to help you. The only truth is Christ. John 14:6, Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” If you don’t know who Jesus is, how do you know him or have a relationship with him?

Is it your “truth”, a man’s “truth”, or God’s TRUTH you are using? I hope this opens your mind.

I pray that you seek and find the fullness of Truth in Jesus Christ and not be offended by someone who is a friend you don’t recognize.

The Bible clearly states what a person must do to be saved. Romans 10:9-11 reads “That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” NIV

Matthew 7:21-23, confessing aloud isn’t the password to heaven. Yes it is necessary to confess and believe, which is more important, Jesus is God and that He rose from the dead as Romans 10 says, but there is more to it than that. The Bible would be much shorter if that is all that mattered.
Matthew 7:15-20, warns against wolves in sheep’s clothing. There are false teachers, but Only One Jesus. Jesus doesn’t change to each person to be each and everyone’s personal savior. Jesus is who He is, He is God and is unchanging. He is the Savior of the World (1 John 4:14). We must come to know Him, not create our own personal savior in our own minds. Jesus wished and prayed for unity (John 17:20-23). The only way unity can become reality is if everyone comes to reality and learns the truth. There is only one Jesus, so that means when different people say different things about what Jesus taught and stood for, at most ONE of them can be RIGHT, which means MANY are WRONG. What motivation is there to promote falsehood? It is either ignorance or sinister.

Even demons confess Jesus is God (Matthew 8:28-34). At the name of Jesus every knee should bend and every tongue confess the Jesus Christ is Lord, whether earth, heaven, or hell (Philippians 2:9-11).

 

[afiala2]

I do not confess my sins to a priest or to any human being. I confess to God. Nowhere in the Bible does it state for sin to be forgiven it must be confessed to a priest. I am sorry but that is not in the Bible. If this were true, how would people who live with no access to a priest confess? Are they doomed because they live without priests for confession?

Jesus gave the apostles the ability to forgive sins and retain sins, and said as the Father has sent me so I send you (John 20:21-23). Bishops and Priests are Jesus’ representatives on earth on the mission Christ started with the Apostles. Why would He give the Apostles the ability to forgive sins without the intent of it being passed on generation to generation? 2 Corinthians 5:17-20, the Apostles (Bishops are their successors) are the representatives or ambassadors for Christ’s ministry of reconciliation. How can a Minister of God forgive your sins if he doesn’t know what they are? You are actually confessing to Christ, through the Priest.

Q. Why do you need a Priest?
A. I don’t know I didn’t make the rules only God understands His ways fully not humans; I just try my best to follow what God has put in place. The real question is why DON’T you need a Priest? Do you have the power to forgive your own sins? Not even the Pope can do that. Where in the Bible does it say Jesus told the entire world everyone can forgive their own sins? I thought only God forgives sins-are you saying you are His representative for His ministry of reconciliation on earth (I wouldn’t believe you because you say you can do it by yourself)? This isn’t to make light of the necessity of the conversion of heart that needs to take place or the fact that any good Christian should examine their conscience frequently whether going to confession or not, but Christ instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation, why as a “Christian” are you questioning Jesus’ teachings? A Catholic KNOWS they are forgiven when they make a good honest confession, because God gave the Apostles and their successors the ability to forgive sins.

If you are unable to be humble enough to confess your sins to someone whose life is committed to helping people get to heaven, are you really sorry for what you did? God understands our nature, after all He created us; what better way to put things right with Him then through the Sacrament of Reconciliation (confession)? He did it to bring Peace to our hearts (John 20:21….Peace be with you…), and a good confession does just that.
God sorts out the details, if you are honestly incapable of attending Mass on Sunday or don’t have a Church within reasonable distance, God knows and is the Ultimate Just Judge. But in this day and age the answer would be move closer to a priest and/or try to get a church built closer to you. I see you are concerned there aren’t enough Catholic Churches rolleyes:), I agree. Next question is if you die in a car accident with a mortal sin on your soul on the way to confession….etc.

“*My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” I John 2:1 NIV *

1 John 2:1-6. If you keep reading, it says you have to keep the commandments. If someone is a professional abortionist and has no remorse for the little children they kill, but goes to church on Sunday and says, good thing Jesus is my Advocate, does that get them to heaven even though they repeatedly break ‘thou shall not kill’? Or worse yet if your church teaches abortion is ok, when will any of the members decide to confess?

Revelation 21:8, lists people who will be in the burning pool of fire, murders are on the list.
20purple02;8385172:

Jesus Christ is our Advocate. I do not confess to another human being who has the same free will and sins as we all do. No human can stay in a "state of grace.” The only human to live without sin is Jesus Christ. He became man to save us all on the cross and He did so without sin. No one else can do what He did because no one else is holy.

So your response to my question seems to be in your religion (which is?) no one is in the state of grace and there are no mortal sins, then? 1 John 5:16-17 states there are deadly sins, how does your religion distinguish between deadly and non-deadly sins?

“Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify your name? For You alone are holy.” Revelation 15:4

Exactly, I like the, “Just and True are your ways” part of Rev. 15:3. It is only through God’s Grace that we can be Holy and stay in a State of Grace through His Sacraments. Read 1 Peter 1:13-16, verse 16 says, for it is written, “be holy because I am Holy”. Without God we can do nothing.

I appreciate the chance to give you some scripture references that I believe answer your questions. I hope I was not over zealous. Gail

I hope you consider me zealous. I love God. The truth is the truth, no matter how much you want to change it, you can’t change God.

 

[afiala2]

“The Eucharist is at the heart of the spiritual life.”

I would completely disagree with this statement. When I attend mass with my husband I see folks leaving church after communion but before mass is over. Is this why they leave early?

So you don’t think Jesus is the heart of Spiritual Life? Who is then? Don’t judge people leaving early, for all you know you have seen a heart surgeon leaving for an emergency operation. But Scripture can shed some light on the situation too, concerning people leaving immediately after communion who don’t need to: the only person who left the last supper early was Judas.

The heart of a spiritual life is the relationship with Jesus. We were created in God’s image. We are to grow in our spiritual life by becoming “more like Him.”

Agreed, but weren’t you just arguing only God can be holy, by citing Rev. 15:4?

God would have none to perish. Free will and whether or not to believe in God is the big decision. Reject God in your life and worse to die rejecting God is the sure way to eternal separation from Him.

People freely choose sin, the choice of mortal sin is what separates us from God. It is an act of rejection of God’s Grace. If you reject the One and Only Church Christ founded, how are you connected? Faith without works is dead (James 2:26). If you aren’t doing the correct things you don’t have a relationship with God or your faith is dead. Good works don’t have any merit if you aren’t in the grace of God (Ephesians 2:8-10).

A relationship is what God wants from us. Daily communication with Him and obedience. It is very simple and has absolutely nothing to do with communion.

Communion has everything to do with it. How are you connected to God if you aren’t in communion with Him? How can you have a relationship with someone you don’t know? John 6:22-71, Jesus had a lot of followers leave him and it is also theorized this was the moment Judas decided to betray, verses 64 & 70-71. Jesus didn’t say wait, wait I was only speaking symbolically. Rather he asked the Apostles are you going to leave me too?, in verse 67. How is John 6:55 symbolic? Also, symbolism in this cause would mean Jesus was saying you must persecute, assault, and destroy Him to obtain eternal Life, making non-sense out of the passage. Luke 22:19, Jesus said do this in remembrance of me, why is reenacting the Last Supper not important? Why do you think not listening to Jesus’ request and not DOING what He asked means you have a good relationship with Him? What do you make of St. Paul’s comments in 1 Corinthians 11:23-32 when he says if you receive the Lord unworthily or don’t discern the body you bring judgment upon yourself? If it is a symbol how can you receive unworthily and how can you bring judgment on yourself? This is why Catholics believe you cannot receive communion when in the state of mortal sin, because you commit another mortal sin by receiving unworthily because you are not in the grace of God.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Catholic FAQ #10: Do Catholics believe they are the only ones who will go to Heaven? youtube.com/watch?v=5cTr8OoGMA0
Only Catholics in Heaven! youtube.com/watch?v=2Dcfj0PU_JQ
Protestant Errors youtube.com/watch?v=eluVxhM2qJo&feature=related
Without the truth humanity is lost. Sorry if the truth is offensive to you, I mean no offense. Jesus was put to death for telling the truth, I guess he offended people too. I am more concerned about helping you get to heaven then if it offends you that I am trying to help you. The only truth is Christ. John 14:6, Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” If you don’t know who Jesus is, how do you know him or have a relationship with him?

Is it your “truth”, a man’s “truth”, or God’s TRUTH you are using? I hope this opens your mind.

I pray that you seek and find the fullness of Truth in Jesus Christ and not be offended by someone who is a friend you don’t recognize.

Matthew 7:21-23, confessing aloud isn’t the password to heaven. Yes it is necessary to confess and believe, which is more important, Jesus is God and that He rose from the dead as Romans 10 says, but there is more to it than that. The Bible would be much shorter if that is all that mattered.
Matthew 7:15-20, warns against wolves in sheep’s clothing. There are false teachers, but Only One Jesus. Jesus doesn’t change to each person to be each and everyone’s personal savior. Jesus is who He is, He is God and is unchanging. He is the Savior of the World (1 John 4:14). We must come to know Him, not create our own personal savior in our own minds. Jesus wished and prayed for unity (John 17:20-23). The only way unity can become reality is if everyone comes to reality and learns the truth. There is only one Jesus, so that means when different people say different things about what Jesus taught and stood for, at most ONE of them can be RIGHT, which means MANY are WRONG. What motivation is there to promote falsehood? It is either ignorance or sinister.

Even demons confess Jesus is God (Matthew 8:28-34). At the name of Jesus every knee should bend and every tongue confess the Jesus Christ is Lord, whether earth, heaven, or hell (Philippians 2:9-11).

Jesus said “Not everyone who calls Me ’ Lord, Lord’, will inherit the Kingdom but only those who do the will of My Father.”

 

[BenMasada]

Non-Catholics or Catholics, it doesn’t matter; the only way to stay in a state of grace is by listening to Moses. I mean, by observing God’s Law, according to Luke 16:29-31.