How do people become possessed?

[CatholicRaven]

If you only take the counsel of those protected by the charism of infallibility, you won’t be accepting many statements as fact from anyone…

LOL, yeah… not quite what I said. Nice try at distracting from the question, though.

But back to the subject; let’s consider where we are, and what we’re discussing here. Now, is it really unreasonable to expect a credible source for a suspicious-sounding theological idea stated as fact on a Catholic Moral Theology board?

I’m simply asking for a credible source, if you or Regina7 or someone else are willing to provide one.

Stating someone heard it from an unknown nun somewhere, who may or may not have actually said or meant what was stated here… well, I hope you wouldn’t accept that as a “credible source” for Catholic teaching from me, either.

 

[Regina7]

LOL, yeah… not quite what I said. Nice try at distracting from the question, though.

But back to the subject; let’s consider where we are, and what we’re discussing here. Now, is it really unreasonable to expect a credible source for a suspicious-sounding theological idea stated as fact on a Catholic Moral Theology board?

I’m simply asking for a credible source, if you or Regina7 or someone else are willing to provide one.

Stating someone heard it from an unknown nun somewhere, who may or may not have actually said or meant what was stated here… well, I hope you wouldn’t accept that as a “credible source” for Catholic teaching from me, either.

She’s not some “unknown nun somewhere.” I can tell you her name, her order, and she was sitting at my kitchen table when she said this. I can even tell you the date she was here (April of this year). We had quite a long discussion about victim souls.

I don’t even think the Church has infallible documents on victim souls:shrug:
It makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

LOL, yeah… not quite what I said. Nice try at distracting from the question, though.

But back to the subject; let’s consider where we are, and what we’re discussing here. Now, is it really unreasonable to expect a credible source for a suspicious-sounding theological idea stated as fact on a Catholic Moral Theology board?

I’m simply asking for a credible source, if you or Regina7 or someone else are willing to provide one.

Stating someone heard it from an unknown nun somewhere, who may or may not have actually said or meant what was stated here… well, I hope you wouldn’t accept that as a “credible source” for Catholic teaching from me, either.

What you said is exactly this:

"As much as I have a great respect for nuns, they are not infallible"…which was preceded by the sentence "I don’t find hearsay to be compelling enough to accept those statements as fact"

So I say again that if, to accept as a statement of fact, you are seeking a source that is protected by the charism of infallibility, that is a small universe – and when the charism is engaged is even more rare.

Even when your bishop speaks or writes, his statements are not each footnoted…let alone the rest of us, when we preach, teach or write.

I have little reason to think that you will be any more interested in the anonymous theology professor than you are in the report of the anonymous nun.

As for your last comment,
Stating someone heard it from an unknown nun somewhere, who may or may not have actually said or meant what was stated here… well, I hope you wouldn’t accept that as a “credible source” for Catholic teaching from me, either.
Since you specifically asked, the answer is: I don’t need to rely upon statements since I am quite competent to evaluate if the thesis advanced by the statement is, in fact, in conformity to the principles of mystical and ascetical theology. I taught the subject.

Personally, I do not find emoticons of people grinning or sticking out their tongue relative to my typed comments to be any more charming than I would have found such behaviour in my lecture hall, when I lectured.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I don’t even think the Church has infallible documents on victim souls:shrug:

No. It is to radically misunderstand the charism of infallibility to think that there would be such documents.

This topic is an aspect of the field of mystical and ascetical theology. The topic principally implicates and intersects with dogmatic theology above all when a theological commission is empaneled to assess a situation/manifestation of extraordinary phenomenon.

Beyond that, at the level of the Holy See, assessments will occur in this area in connection with the advance of a cause for beatification and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith would be consulted for their assessment by the Congregation for the Causes of Saints when the candidate has extraordinary phenomenon in the dossier.

The finding would trigger its own distinct examination and determination.

 

[CatholicRaven]

I used those emoticons to indicate that I was not offended by your exaggeration or misunderstanding of what I wrote, and that I did not really think you intended to distract from the question–I was being facetious. I’m not here to get a grade from you, so whether you find me charming or not is irrelevant and unimportant to me. However, perhaps I chose my words or emoticons poorly and/or unintentionally came across disrespectfully, and for that, I apologize.

Since you specifically asked, the answer is: I don’t need to rely upon statements since I am quite competent to evaluate if the thesis advanced by the statement is, in fact, in conformity to the principles of mystical and ascetical theology. I taught the subject.

Then I would think you’d be able to provide some kind of documented support or evidence that these statements (or the theses behind them) either are or are not, “in conformity to the principles of …theology.” Or at the least, some good logical arguments in favor. Even if not for me, then for others reading this thread, right?

I have asked for a credible source–perhaps I should say a verifiable source of some kind of evidence in favor. I do not require an infallible source, but a reasonable one.

I said that I do not find hearsay compelling enough in this case. To clarify, hearsay–that is, not what the nun said, but Regina7’s interpretation of what the nun said–is indirect and unverified. It’s nothing personal against Regina7 (or the nun). Note that, no matter how sincere and honest we are, what we hear someone say, and the way we interpret what we hear, may or may not be exactly accurate or precisely understood in the way the other person meant it. That is why I generally do not find hearsay to be a credible source for a complicated theological teaching.

Anyway, after I said that, then I began a separate paragraph from the previous statement, indicating a new idea, not a continuation of the previous sentence. In that next paragraph, I said that nuns are not infallible, meaning that if the ONLY support for the statements was that it’s a nun’s opinion, it’s not necessarily true. If nuns were infallible, then if a nun had taught this as a matter of faith and morals, it would be true, and would require no more support. But that is not the case. That only indicates that the statements need more support than one nun’s opinion. At this point, it seems it is only her opinion, not a statement that should be repeated as absolute truth.

I am not seeing how we can assume that a person makes a choice to be a victim soul at the time he/she is created, since we are not considered morally responsible for our choices until we reach the age of reason. Is there any evidence that at the moment we are created, we are outside of time, able to reason, and able to make moral choices, and then lose that ability at the moment we are physically conceived (and wouldn’t that be the same moment we were created)? And what reason would there be to later lack the knowledge/memory that we had made such a choice?

I don’t particularly enjoy repeating myself, so this will be the last time I ask regarding this topic/thread.
Are there any theological, logical, or reasonable arguments supporting the idea(s) that:
a. many victim souls choose to be victims at the time they are created, and
b. are unaware that they are victim souls?

 

[Josie33]

For all those interested, here’s exorcist Fr. Ripperger’s talk on Demons and Possession. Also, here’s his talk on Weapons Against the Demonic.

 

[LethalMouse]

I always wonder if people back in ancient times, when they blamed demons for almost everything, I wonder if they were not right all along and its only because the modern world has allowed itself to drift so far away from God and the truth, that we now have ‘scientific or medical explanations’ for these things, we will believe just about anything we are told if it comes from someone we consider a scientist, doctor, or other ‘expert.’ but all for we know, this could be part of the plan…it could be all deception?

I cannot think of one example where the secular scientific or medical community would admit to something being truly from God, or supernatural in nature, I tend to even think when we start seeing some of the things predicted in the end times, our modern experts will try to explain them away and sadly many will probably fall for the lies.

In a sense, God is not the God of hollow bodies. Everything He made “works” therefore something “explainable” may have other purpose

 

[oldgraymare2]

For all those interested, here’s exorcist Fr. Ripperger’s talk on Demons and Possession. Also, here’s his talk on Weapons Against the Demonic.

Thanks for posting these videos for us, and for sharing these with us, Josie.

Sometimes I don’t even think of looking at something like this, so I went to take a look at one of the videos, and it was really interesting. I looked at the second one.

 

[Josie33]

Thanks for posting these videos for us, and for sharing these with us, Josie.

Sometimes I don’t even think of looking at something like this, so I went to take a look at one of the videos, and it was really interesting. I looked at the second one.

You’re very welcome

 

[njlisa]

Several years ago, I became fascinated with “true crime” books. And suddenly I realized, “These books should not be used for entertainment.” So I stopped. I don’t know whether I sensed a demonic presence. But I did sense evil. It was not to be tampered with anymore.I feel much freer.

 

[truetofaith]

Several years ago, I became fascinated with “true crime” books. And suddenly I realized, “These books should not be used for entertainment.” So I stopped. I don’t know whether I sensed a demonic presence. But I did sense evil. It was not to be tampered with anymore.I feel much freer.

I felt the same way about a TV program called “Tales from the Crypt.” Evil kept winning in the episodes and I got a very uneasy feeling, so I stopped watching.

I used to watch it after I came home from our prayer group meeting…I’m glad I realized what was happening.