How do people who use contraception go to confession?

[Psalm30]

We did experience a miscarriage, probably more than one, but only one where we knew we were pregnant. I baptized her with my own hands (or attempted to, there were no discernible remains).

I’m very sorry you had to go through that.

Again, I wish some priest had asked me that question. I was never even asked that by an FSSP or SSPX priest. It just seems odd to me.

Here again: I wish some priest had asked me that question. I was never even asked that by an FSSP or SSPX priest. It just seems odd to me.

I feel like I’m saying the same things over and over, but I feel that what I’m trying to say doesn’t seem to be getting through to you. I really just hope you can understand and appreciate the fact that while such questions wouldn’t bother you, asking them could cause pain for others. This is likely why priests don’t ask them, and I believe they know what they’re doing.

What I don’t think is right, is for the injured spouse to have to suffer in silence and submit to their partner’s sinful demands.

I don’t think anyone here thinks anyone should have to suffer in silence about anything.

How would it be if the injured spouse were being forced to perform unnatural acts for the gratification of the partner? (I’m sure that does happen in some marriages.) What makes those unnatural acts different from being forced to use contraception? Didn’t Paul VI condemn contraception as contrary to the natural law?

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make by saying this. It goes without saying that there is no difference.

I thought that was just standard procedure.

This is the first I’ve heard of it.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The problem seems to be that anyone that does not have lots of kids, you assume that they use contraception. NFP works. Very well.

And let’s not even get into the fact that a couple may be having personal health issues that impact their ability to conceive, or even to have sex, and they don’t wish to share that with total strangers in the congregation, or even with their friends, and sometimes not even with their own relatives.

People really need to just butt out of their neighbors’ childbearing business.

You know, in the midst of all this, I have had what may be a “moment of clarity” — generally speaking, when people do not have children for a number of years, or never have them at all, it is not because they didn’t want them, it is because they couldn’t have them. Voluntary, desired, deliberate childlessness is just not all that common, and it is even less common among Catholics who go to confession. And among people who practice NFP, it’s pretty much unheard of.



OK, so now I think I get it. The situation with my wife and me was pretty sui generis. We generally led people to believe, more by silence and circumlocution, never addressing it directly, that we were unable to conceive. They just came to that conclusion and didn’t question it. In confession, we just didn’t mention anything about having or not having children. And it was never questioned there either.

And as far as “butting out of other people’s childbearing business”, it cuts the other way too. Whenever a couple chooses to be totally open to life, or has more children than the socially accepted two, or three, or maybe four, there are all kinds of comments — “okay, now stop!”, “don’t you know what causes that?”, “did they ever hear of birth control?”, and so on.

Why the hostility? Unless the aggrieved bystander feels like they are being asked to help pay for the children’s upbringing — and this is a common lament where possible welfare benefits are involved — what’s it to them? Fear of overpopulation or climate change, you say? Maybe more like being outbred by people who aren’t like me — a different and not-preferred religion, culture, social status, nationality, race? Eh? Maybe even conviction that this couple is more open to life and trustful of God’s providence — and I’m not? That God is more pleased with these people than He is with me?

That’s as old as Cain and Abel — “I want to get by with offering a grain sacrifice and I don’t want to have to feel bad about my brother offering a better sacrifice of the firstlings of his flock”.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I thought that was just standard procedure

I believe it was advice given in the catechism book when I first became Catholic. I’ve just always done it. I think it’s good advice — lets the priest know “where you are” in life. Isn’t that pretty important in assessing subjective culpability, where a question exists?

 

[DeniseNY]

Lifelong Catholic and I’ve never heard of doing that, nor have I ever done it.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

What I don’t think is right, is for the injured spouse to have to suffer in silence and submit to their partner’s sinful demands.

I thought one of the objections being raised here, was that an innocent partner might “have to” use contraception because their spouse insisted upon it, and their spouse might do bad things if the innocent partner refused (leave them, have an affair, possibly even physically abuse them?). I maintain no, there is no “have to”, when it gets to the point of having one’s conscience violated, that’s time to set things right and get a third party involved, to protect the innocent spouse from abuse, and to get the demanding spouse to see why violating the other spouse’s conscience is something they must not do. It would be far more common for it to be a wife being basically sexually blackmailed by her husband, than the other way around — it’s difficult, though not impossible, to imagine a wife telling her husband “I do not want to get pregnant, and I want sex, and I want you to use a condom, and if you don’t go along, I’m going to do XYZ”. It’s far easier to imagine an intransigent husband saying “I do not want to get you pregnant, and I want sex, and I want you to go on the Pill, and if you don’t go along, I’m going to do XYZ”. I can’t imagine that our society would have much tolerance for a husband like that. Dr Phil would have a field day with this!

How would it be if the injured spouse were being forced to perform unnatural acts for the gratification of the partner? (I’m sure that does happen in some marriages.) What makes those unnatural acts different from being forced to use contraception? Didn’t Paul VI condemn contraception as contrary to the natural law?

My point is that we recoil, and rightly so, at the thought of an innocent spouse being forced to perform unnatural acts for a demanding spouse, but when it comes to contraception, some would say “well, sometimes spouses are forced to use it, we mustn’t be too quick to judge, maybe they have to use it to keep their marriage together, to keep from losing their spouse who wants them to use it”.

Actually, upon further reflection, I would be willing to entertain that there is a difference — contraceptive intercourse that is otherwise rightly ordered is not as outrageous as, pardon me, unnatural copulation, because aside from the contraceptive aspect, it is a normal sex act. Or maybe there is no difference. I don’t know.

 

[Psalm30]

Voluntary, desired, deliberate childlessness is just not all that common

I think it’s safe to say there are plenty of people who want children. I don’t know the actual statistics of the number of people who are childless by choice versus the number of people who are childless because they are physically incapable of achieving pregnancy. But, consider the rates of non-Church-approved routes to parenthood—IVF, artificial insemination, etc. There are definitely people out there who are so desperate to have biological children they are even willing to use immoral means to achieve it.

and it is even less common among Catholics who go to confession. And among people who practice NFP, it’s pretty much unheard of.

Once again, I don’t know the statistics. But if a Catholic is concerned enough about the teachings of the Church to go to Confession on a regular basis and use NFP rather than contraception, they probably take the open-to-procreation aspect of marriage very seriously. Or maybe not.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

and it is even less common among Catholics who go to confession. And among people who practice NFP, it’s pretty much unheard of.

As I said, we were sui generis. We thought we had found a loophole — indefinitely defer having a child for selfish reasons, maybe even for a lifetime, but hey, we’re OK, because we’re using NFP, and we’re both serious enough about the Church’s teachings that we don’t mind making the sacrifice of periodic abstinence. Maybe we were the only couple in the history of the Church who has ever done that. But we are living proof that using NFP for selfish reasons is possible.

Perhaps by telling our story, I can lead others, even those using NFP with a contraceptive mentality (assuming such people exist), to conviction and repentance. If even one couple is led to this realization, then it’s time well spent.

 

[Psalm30]

I thought one of the objections being raised here, was that an innocent partner might “have to” use contraception because their spouse insisted upon it, and their spouse might do bad things if the innocent partner refused (leave them, have an affair, possibly even physically abuse them?). I maintain no, there is no “have to”, when it gets to the point of having one’s conscience violated, that’s time to set things right and get a third party involved, to protect the innocent spouse from abuse, and to get the demanding spouse to see why violating the other spouse’s conscience is something they must not do. It would be far more common for it to be a wife being basically sexually blackmailed by her husband, than the other way around — it’s difficult, though not impossible, to imagine a wife telling her husband “I do not want to get pregnant, and I want sex, and I want you to use a condom, and if you don’t go along, I’m going to do XYZ”. It’s far easier to imagine an intransigent husband saying “I do not want to get you pregnant, and I want sex, and I want you to go on the Pill, and if you don’t go along, I’m going to do XYZ”. I can’t imagine that our society would have much tolerance for a husband like that. Dr Phil would have a field day with this!

If something like this is going on, the couple needs counseling. I agree, I’d love to hear what Dr. Phil would have to say about it.

I think what people were trying to say earlier in the thread is that pressure from a spouse to use contraception can reduce or even eliminate culpability.

Actually, upon further reflection, I would be willing to entertain that there is a difference — contraceptive intercourse that is otherwise rightly ordered is not as outrageous as, pardon me, unnatural copulation, because aside from the contraceptive aspect, it is a normal sex act. Or maybe there is no difference. I don’t know.

Maybe.

The thing is, the “goal” of NFP and contraception is essentially the same—have sex without getting pregnant. I think it’s hard for some people to see a difference between the two. Why is one okay but not the other? I personally understand the difference, but I can understand why a person might not. If both spouses are on the same page that they don’t want to get pregnant but still want to have sex, it can be frustrating for the spouse who may not be Catholic, or who may be Catholic but does not understand the Church’s teaching, to accept the fact that they must use a method that requires a great deal of work and the added factor of periodic abstinence, when, after all is said and done, the goal of having sex without getting pregnant is the same.

 

[Psalm30]

Maybe we were the only couple in the history of the Church who has ever done that. But we are living proof that using NFP for selfish reasons is possible.

It’s certainly possible to use NFP selfishly, just as it’s certainly possible to do anything selfishly. I highly doubt that you were the only couple in the history of the Church that has used NFP selfishly.

The thing, though, is that the selfish aspect is not necessarily tied to the actual concrete reason for using NFP. I.e. a couple could make good money, be physically healthy, etc. but still choose to have only one or two children rather than eight, and it doesn’t automatically mean they’re being selfish.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The thing is, the “goal” of NFP and contraception is essentially the same—have sex without getting pregnant. I think it’s hard for some people to see a difference between the two. Why is one okay but not the other? I personally understand the difference, but I can understand why a person might not… it can be frustrating for the spouse who may not be Catholic, or who may be Catholic but does not understand the Church’s teaching, to accept the fact that they must use a method… when, after all is said and done, the goal of having sex without getting pregnant is the same.

I’ve heard this objection many times. I’ve even heard it said that while contraception may be sinful (and obviously I believe it is), to appeal to natural law, as Paul VI did, might not have been the best objection to hang his encyclical upon. The Catholic world was expecting him to say something entirely different, he didn’t, and they had an issue with this. They were crestfallen. I will concede that, in the years immediately before Humanae vitae, there may have been a probable case for “the pill” being considered natural, and there could have even been the attitude “the Vatican is studying this, there is a panel of experts, and it’s very possible that the Pope will relax the Church’s teaching”. But that didn’t happen. Some people were hoping Pope Francis would approve of divorced and “remarried” people receiving communion in Amoris laetitia. He didn’t do that either.

The difference between NFP and ABC, and it is all the difference in the world, is that with NFP, no barrier is set up against conception — only a set of probabilities. If Almighty God wants a child to be conceived, in spite of all the couple’s efforts, a child will be conceived. If that does happen, the couple needs to be conformed enough to God’s will that they will rejoice and accept this new life with a happy heart. If they can’t handle that remote possibility, then they need to abstain completely. It’s as simple as that. Heroic abstinence, whether periodic or total, may be the cross that Our Lord has fashioned for them from the beginning of time. People are given worse crosses to bear every day. I have rejected enough crosses, thrown them aside, enough times in my life to know what I am talking about. Miserere mei Domine.

And as for couples where one spouse accepts NFP and the other one just can’t (or won’t) do it, I can only say that this is yet one more reason why people contemplating marriage must discern, and discern some more, whether this person will be a spouse who will lead them toward heaven or not. Ask the question. Ask what it will be like, if there ever comes a reason why we can’t have sex, for a month, for six months, ten days a month, twenty days a month, or never again. All kinds of things happen — accidents, grave illness, involuntary separations, one gets fat and ugly and the other one runs off with that hot thing from the office, you name it. Not fun to think about when you’re giddy silly in love up to your eyeballs, but you can either ask now, or you can react to it when it happens. Your call.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Maybe we were the only couple in the history of the Church who has ever done that. But we are living proof that using NFP for selfish reasons is possible.

Well, I have gotten the vibe in these forums that perhaps we were the only ones — the general tenor seems to have been something like “NFP requires sacrifice, it’s not something people use lightly, you don’t have to have a reason, the mere fact you are using NFP proves your bona fides”. This isn’t what Pius XII or Paul VI taught, but I have wondered if it could be part of a “hermeneutic of continuity” in the Church’s teaching on birth regulation.

The thing, though, is that the selfish aspect is not necessarily tied to the actual concrete reason for using NFP. I.e. a couple could make good money, be physically healthy, etc. but still choose to have only one or two children rather than eight, and it doesn’t automatically mean they’re being selfish.

That is true. People can have all kinds of good reasons for limiting the size of their families (insofar as Almighty God allows them to do so — He can always arrange to make NFP fail). I have my own thoughts on the phenomenon of prosperous, well-educated, healthy couples choosing to have very small families, while people of more modest means abandon themselves to Divine Providence and have all the children God sends them, but I fully realize I cannot judge any individual family. If they can accomplish this with NFP, more power to them.

 

[babochka]

Lifelong Catholic and I’ve never heard of doing that, nor have I ever done it.

Nor have I ever done it. I have come across it before, though I was not taught to do it. It might be one of those things that was taught as standard in a particular time and place, but not universally.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Lifelong Catholic and I’ve never heard of doing that, nor have I ever done it.

Could be. I think it helps to put the confession into context, and it’s good advice.

I only go along with this “be bold, be brave, and be gone” business up to a point. Some confessions just take longer. If the penitent can foresee that “this one’s gonna be a whopper!”, an appointment with the priest should really be made, lest everyone else’s confession time get chewed up because their confession will take longer.

Is it really pastoral to reduce every penitent’s confession to soundbites?

 

[Psalm30]

Is it really pastoral to reduce every penitent’s confession to soundbites?

If they’re pressed for time i.e. Mass is starting in thirty minutes or one or two priests are hearing Confessions at a weekend retreat with 100+ people, then yes.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Is it really pastoral to reduce every penitent’s confession to soundbites?

This has come up recently in another thread, but I have often thought, if there are people in line when the priest has to quit hearing confessions, the Church should allow for general absolution of these people — “I will absolve you, it’s not your fault that I ran out of time, but make it a point to get to confession as soon as you can, or call the parish office and set up an appointment”.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

This thread is getting ready to close, so I’d just like at this point to thank everyone for their contributions, whether we agreed wholeheartedly, disagreed vehemently, or somewhere in between. I learned a lot. Thanks again — HSD