How do we interpret Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5?

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So Ephesians 2:8-9 says
‘‘8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.’’
and Titus 3:5 says
‘‘5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,’’
These seem to point at faith alone, but I know that isn’t correct since we are saved by faith and works. How does the Catholic church interpret these passages? Thanks!
 
We interpret them by reading the Epistle of James.

I’ll leave that to you as an exercise.
 
Sorry, I don’t mean to be a heretic, and I believe everything the Catholic church teaches, but I"m trying to make sense of this all. I read James, and understand that in James we read ‘faith without works is dead’ so that man is saved by faith AND works. But it SEEMS to me (this must be wrong), that Ephesians and Titus say man is saved by faith alone. James says man is saved by faith and works. Ephesians and Titus say man is saved by faith alone. Truth cannot contradict truth. Where is my interpritation wrong? Thank you!
 
Ah ha. Let me see if I understand the question. You are perhaps thinking that the Catholic Church teaches that we are saved through “works righteousness?”

The relationship between faith and works in Catholic theology is entirely a function of grace. We do not save ourselves by our works, particularly by works of the law. Jesus saves us by grace through faith.

Still, the New Testament is shot through with admonitions that what we DO is an important part of what we BELIEVE: that saving faith is not merely an intellectual event. Paul admonishes us to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling.” So just sitting back and saying “I believe, therefore I need not love,” doesn’t cut it. Faith works in love. And the works of faith and love we do are, by the mercy of God, joined in Christ to the work of salvation, not just our own salvation but the salvation of the world. “Forwe are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.” (I Cor 3:9)
 
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bobby_bambino:
Sorry, I don’t mean to be a heretic, and I believe everything the Catholic church teaches, but I"m trying to make sense of this all. I read James, and understand that in James we read ‘faith without works is dead’ so that man is saved by faith AND works. But it SEEMS to me (this must be wrong), that Ephesians and Titus say man is saved by faith alone. James says man is saved by faith and works. Ephesians and Titus say man is saved by faith alone. Truth cannot contradict truth. Where is my interpritation wrong? Thank you!
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I’m sorry. Where do you see the word “alone?”
 
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bobby_bambino:
So Ephesians 2:8-9 says
‘‘8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.’’
and Titus 3:5 says
‘‘5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,’’
These seem to point at faith alone, but I know that isn’t correct since we are saved by faith and works. How does the Catholic church interpret these passages? Thanks!
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There is no contradiction to James in these verses. In the Ephesians verse Paul is simply saying that we are not saved by working our way to heaven. James 2 doesn’t say we have to and neither does the Catholic Church.

A similar observation can be made about the second verse. Titus 3:5 says nothing at all about faith alone; Paul is again simply pointing out that we are not saved by working our way to heaven.

The proper, balanced approach is the Catholic one – we take the whole of Scripture into consideration and not just isolated proof texts. Thus, we are saved by grace thru faith and are expected to cooperate in Christ’s saving mission by obedience to the commands of Christ.

Another reason why the Catholic Church is really the only “Full Gospel” Church there is. 🙂
 
Ah, yes, yes! I think I get it now. I wanna make sure I have this right, and this is essentially a paraphrasing of what Fidelis said, but the point of the two verses is to make sure that we understand that we do not earn salvation- it is not a right that we obtain after living a good life. Only through the grace of God are we saved. Is that right? I understand correctly? Thanks everyone for all your help. Man I love Catholicism! We always have the best and most logical answers and explinations. Such sound reasoning. That’s why it’s the truth.
 
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bobby_bambino:
Ah, yes, yes! I think I get it now. I wanna make sure I have this right, and this is essentially a paraphrasing of what Fidelis said, but the point of the two verses is to make sure that we understand that we do not earn salvation- it is not a right that we obtain after living a good life. Only through the grace of God are we saved. Is that right? I understand correctly? Thanks everyone for all your help. Man I love Catholicism! We always have the best and most logical answers and explinations. Such sound reasoning. That’s why it’s the truth.
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Bingo!
 
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bobby_bambino:
Ah, yes, yes! I think I get it now. I wanna make sure I have this right, and this is essentially a paraphrasing of what Fidelis said, but the point of the two verses is to make sure that we understand that we do not earn salvation- it is not a right that we obtain after living a good life. Only through the grace of God are we saved. Is that right? I understand correctly? Thanks everyone for all your help. Man I love Catholicism! We always have the best and most logical answers and explinations. Such sound reasoning. That’s why it’s the truth.
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Sorry I gave such a terse answer. I forget that what seems obvious to me isn’t obvious to someone else.

Your interpretation seems right. We Catholics do not teach and do not believe that one can earn salvation by works. I think that’s what you wanted to clarify.
 
2 Tim 1:9 says the same “He saved us and called us to a Holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design…”
It is not our own personal deeds that is works but it is the works which is done according to God’s eternal plan. If you have Faith but the works you do are of your own that is when, “Faith without work is dead.” 👍
 
I often chuckle to myself when I see Titus 3:5 quoted as a basis for faith and not works. Yet when we read a little further into Paul’s thought in verse 8, he states: “This saying is ture, and concerning these things I desire thee to insist, that they who believe in God may be careful to excel in good works. These things are good and useful to men.”

Vs. 9, “But avoid foolish controversies and quarrels and disputes about the Law for they are useless and futile.” Seems like a good idea to me. 😃
 
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bobby_bambino:
So Ephesians 2:8-9 says
‘‘8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.’’
and Titus 3:5 says
‘‘5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,’’
These seem to point at faith alone, but I know that isn’t correct since we are saved by faith and works. How does the Catholic church interpret these passages? Thanks!
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I disagree. They point to salvation by GRACE alone, NOT faith alone.

“Faith” is another act of the will – a Protestant “work.” God makes the first move. Believing that we initiate salvation by faith is the Pelegian heresy. Instead, Man is too consummately bankrupt to initiate salvation by faith.

As John-Paul II said, “Salvation is NOT by faith alone.”
 
My post was not really clear, I believe. It looked as though I was promoting a gospel of works by citing verse 8, but what I meant to say was Paul proclaimed both: a justification by grace, followed by an exhortation to good works. And both of are in the same chapter of scripture!
5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, 6 whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life. 8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these points, that those who have believed in God be careful to devote themselves to good works; these are excellent and beneficial to others.
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Titus 3:5 is basically saying:

God the Father did NOT say “Well Jesus, they are just so deserving down there, you NEED to go down to earth as a man and save them BECAUSE they are so deserving.”

No. That is not WHY God the Son became Man and saved us (through the graces He merited from His work). Jesus did this for us, “because of his mercy”.

And HOW did Jesus save us? Through many channels of graces He earned through His work. One of these graces, mentioned in Titus 3, (the entrance ramp to the Christian life in a sense) is “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,” or as John says in John 3:5 “You must be born of water and the spirit” or as Peter says in 1st Peter 3 that “baptism . . . now saves you.”

Ephesians 3:8-9 is basically saying:

We cannot save ourselves by our own mere works (that’s WHY no man can boast). We can’t save ourselves by our own mere faith either. It takes God’s special grace of faith (and hope and charity). That’s WHY we call it “Supernatural” faith, hope, and charity.

But because we cannot save our self with our own natural faith doesn’t mean we don’t need supernatural faith. We DO need supernatural faith. We can’t get this on our own. And the saving works are part of the process of salvation too. But they are not our mere works on their own (lest any man boast). Remember, God is at work IN YOU both for the will and good pleasure of the Father (see Philippians 2). Recall that “it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives IN ME” (see Galatians 2).

Incidentally, Romans 3 tells us the Jewish works of Law such as “circumcision” cannot save us either. But moral works (such as in Romans 2) are still necessary. Steve Wood wisely calls these moral works (done in a state of grace) “grace works.” Also St. Paul in the book of Romans the very first and the very last time he mentions “faith” in the book talks about “the OBEDIENCE of faith”. So St. Paul necessarily seems to see a saving faith as one that is not mere intellectual affirmation, but a faith that necessarily “works in love” as he says elsewhere in his letter to the Galatians.

Be careful not to add the word “alone” in Scripture when it is not there. If the Bible teaches “A”, “B” and “C” in Scripture we affirm ALL of them.

It is also important when we DO see the word “alone” such as “you are not justified by faith alone” (i.e. in James 2) we need to be careful not to interpret away the word “alone” to fit into a predetermined belief system (I am not implying YOU would do that bobby_bambino, these are just general principles I think are reasonable).
 
Here is the way I see it.

In short we are saved by faith.
However the problem comes about on the definition of faith. Protestants define faith as a simple affirmation like “I believe in Jesus”, THE BIBLE teaches that faith is believing via works.

Here is an example, this passage is one of the most abused passages in the Bible about “Faith Alone” that Protestants use all the time, it is in Acts 16:

29 And [the jailer] called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 and brought them out and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
That is the answer that Paul tells the jailer, that he must Believe. This is how we are saved. The problem comes when people interpret this to mean that the jailer got on his knees and said “Jesus I believe in you” and from then on the jailer was saved, they think its as easy as that.
HOWEVER if you read the passage in context here is what it says:
32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family. 34 Then he brought them up into his house, and set food before them; and he rejoiced with all his household that he had believed in God.
In v32 it tells us that Paul and Silas INFORMED the jailer on what Jesus required of the jailer. Continuing to v33 it says “he took them the SAME HOUR of the NIGHT” which if you go to v25 you see that it was MIDNIGHT, so they were taken out PAST MIDNIGHT AND BAPTIZED, him and his family. Getting Baptized was so central to being saved that they went out at that very late hour. THEN on v34 at the end it says he rejoiced because he BELIEVED.
NOTICE how it says he “believed” AFTER getting Baptized!!

EVERY church that Paul wrote to were to people who were ALREADY BAPTIZED, he knew they were already Baptized otherwise his letters would mean nothing to them.

Yes we are saved by faith, but not the Protestant misinterpretation of it.
 
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mercygate:
Ah ha. Let me see if I understand the question. You are perhaps thinking that the Catholic Church teaches that we are saved through “works righteousness?”

The relationship between faith and works in Catholic theology is entirely a function of grace. We do not save ourselves by our works, particularly by works of the law. Jesus saves us by grace through faith.

Still, the New Testament is shot through with admonitions that what we DO is an important part of what we BELIEVE: that saving faith is not merely an intellectual event. Paul admonishes us to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling.” So just sitting back and saying “I believe, therefore I need not love,” doesn’t cut it. Faith works in love. And the works of faith and love we do are, by the mercy of God, joined in Christ to the work of salvation, not just our own salvation but the salvation of the world. “Forwe are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.” (I Cor 3:9)
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I have to say that I think this is one of the neatest summaries I have seen on this topic.
Thanks mercygate :clapping:
 
I recall the line “faith is the beginning of salvation.” Perhaps this can help explain its place. I don’t recall a passage that says that we are saved by “faith alone,” but only we are saved by faith.
 
But even faith is grace in that it is a gift from God first. The entire OT was revealing to us that left to our own human strength, we turn away from God time and time again…

When we love someone, we don’t just love them then walk away and get on with our lives. We want them to be happy and we do whatever we can to ensure it. The only way we can do something for God in this world is to love and help those He loves, our families and friends, our neighbors, our enemies.

We must always remember, too, that the fruits and proof of our love and faith are found in the works of our hands, the sacrifices we make on behalf of others, who are also God’s beloveds. The more we love God, the more we want everyone to know Him and love Him through our voices, hands, actions. That’s why Jeus revealed to us that the goats and sheep would be separated based upon the works they do. Like the son in the parable who told the Father no, but then did as He asked being the one who did the Father’s will, even though we are sometimes dragged kicking and screaming, like Jonah. Iit is ultimately a proof of our love when we DO the Father’s will, which is to do good to and for others.

We were created by a God who by His very nature is self-giving and loving. We see this in our creation and salvation stories, we see it in the Holy Trinity Himself.

We are saved by grace ( a free gift from God to His creatures because of His love for us) which allows us to have faith. We come to love God, and the more we do love Him, the more we love and help those He loves, others.

We are saved by faith, AND a faith without works is dead. It all comes down to that mustard seed which grows exponentially, and then flowers and bears fruit. The soil of the vine is the supernatural grace that saves us, loving Jesus/God Who is the vine which flowers through us in the fruits of our actions.

Think of the fig tree that represented the Jews, but which never bore fruit. Jesus didn’t have to curse it. The Jews love for God never grew the fruit of wanting to share that love for God with other nations. They cursed themselves. They lost themselves in the setails of their faith, rather than in the fruits of their actions. It was only that Jesus showed what the judgment was of those of us who had no fruit, did no good works–a harvesting into the eternal flames.

In Christ’s peace and love,

Robin L. in TX
 
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=65373

Go there. Read the replies. As far as your questions, my posts #45-47 will help you understand it (it’s all one answer split over three posts).

There are of course Protestants arguing, and one fellow named Theophilius who is neither Protestant nor Catholic. His ideas are… well somewhere in between what is right and what is wrong. There’s a lot in the thread which is trying to just defend faith+works, which isn’t what you want, but some posts, like the ones I mentioned above and a few others, explain it.

Also read your catechisim.
 
**Works Are a Part of Faith—Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves. Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments (St. John 14: 11-15).

SAVED BY HOPE—For in HOPE we were SAVED. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait with endurance (Romans 8: 24).

I Timothy 4: 16—Attend to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in both tasks, for by doing so you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

**St. Mark 16: 16—Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 These signs will **accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new languages. 18 They will pick up serpents (with their hands), and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them. They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Wisdom 8: 7—And if any one loves righteousness, her labors are virtues; for she teaches self-control and prudence, justice and courage; nothing in life is more profitable for men than these.

Perseveres Saved—But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved (St. Mark 13: 13 and St. Matthew 24: 13).

Good Deeds—Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your GOOD DEEDS and glorify your heavenly father (St. Matthew 5: 16).

Psalm 85: 11—Love and truth will meet; justice and peace will kiss, Truth will spring from the earth; justice will look down from heaven.

Psalm 89: 15-16—Justice and judgment are the foundation of your throne; love and loyalty march before you. Happy the people who know you, Lord, who walk in the radiance of your face.

**St. John 3: 21—But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his **

WORKS may be clearly seen and done in God.

**Galatians 5: 6—For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only **FAITH WORKING through LOVE. (N. B. Works are a part of faith.)

Psalm 26: 3—Your love is before my eyes; I walk guided by your faithfulness.

**II Corinthians 5: 6-7—So we are always courageous, although we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we *WALK ***BY FAITH, not by sight.

Psalm 62: 12-13—One thing God has said; two things I have heard; Power belongs to God; so too, Lord, does kindness, And you render to each of us according to our deeds.

St. Matthew 16: 27—For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the Father’s glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.

I Corinthians 13: 4-7—Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, BELIEVES (faith) all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Co-workers and God—We are God’s co-workers; you are God’s field, God’s building (I Corinthians 3: 9).

**James 2: 22—You see that FAITH was active along with his WORKS, and FAITH was completed by the WORKS. **

Hebrews 11: 4—By FAITH Abel offered to God a sacrifice greater than Cain. Through THIS he was attested to be righteous, God bearing witness to his gifts, and through THIS, though dead, he still SPEAKS.

Hebrews 11: 7—By FAITH Noah, warned about what was not yet seen, with reverence BUILT an ark for the salvation of his household. Through this he condemned the world and inherited the RIGHTEOUSNESS that comes through FAITH.

Romans 10: 14—But how can they call on Him in whom they have not BELIEVED? And how can they believe in Him of whom they have not HEARD? And how can they HEAR without someone to PREACH.

I Timothy 2: 10—but rather, as befits women who PROFESS reverence for God, with GOOD DEEDS.

**
 
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