How do we know that Mary was a Virgin?

[LilyM]

So it’s a special prophetic sign that a young woman who is NOT a virgin gets pregnant? So why was Mary’s pregnancy the prophetic sign as opposed to the zillions of other pregnancies that occurred through natural means to various young Jewish women on that day?

I have seen and read many scholars discuss that the word for “virgin” in the original manuscripts can also be translated to mean “young woman”…that it was a common understanding that the same word had several definitions…

And also, several books that show where scribes changed the text in the gospel called Matthew from “Jacob was the father of Joseph husband of Mary, out of whom Jesus—the one who is called the Messiah—was born”…in earlier versions of the book, to…” Jacob was father of Joseph, to whom was betrothed the virgin Mary from who Jesus—etc,"…where the word “virgin” was added in by copyists in later texts.

So I assume these might be bits from the discussions you saw on the other sites discussing the bible?

Of course, unless we have Mary’s doctor show us x-rays, we can’t prove it.
If you believe it, you must believe how the story was passed along verbally, written down later, then translated/interpreted…and you have to believe what the church tells you.

 

[teresa_lamb]

So, I understand that Mary was a virgin before and after having Jesus. But here’s what confuses me: how do we know that Jesus wasn’t conceived traditionally between Mary and Joseph and that that was Mary’s only intercourse ever? I understand that God can certainly just put Jesus into Mary’s womb if He wants to; anything’s possible for Him. Was the angel Gabriel telling Mary that Jesus was already in her, or was he saying that she should find a man with whom to make him?

Go back and re-read your first sentence. Then ignore the rest of what you wrote. Next, open up the book of St. Luke and start reading chapter 1, verses 26 thru 38 (and even further if you like) and then meditate upon this If Jesus is the son of God then how could He have a human father since God is NOT human?

Hope this helps

 

[LilyM]

So, I understand that Mary was a virgin before and after having Jesus. But here’s what confuses me: how do we know that Jesus wasn’t conceived traditionally between Mary and Joseph and that that was Mary’s only intercourse ever? I understand that God can certainly just put Jesus into Mary’s womb if He wants to; anything’s possible for Him. Was the angel Gabriel telling Mary that Jesus was already in her, or was he saying that she should find a man with whom to make him?

Hun, look up the definition of ‘virgin’ sometime. A woman who has intercourse with a man, any man, even if it’s only once, thereby loses her virginity. What makes you think a woman can have sex with a man and remain a virgin?

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

So, I understand that Mary was a virgin before and after having Jesus. But here’s what confuses me: how do we know that Jesus wasn’t conceived traditionally between Mary and Joseph and that that was Mary’s only intercourse ever? I understand that God can certainly just put Jesus into Mary’s womb if He wants to; anything’s possible for Him. Was the angel Gabriel telling Mary that Jesus was already in her, or was he saying that she should find a man with whom to make him?

[BIBLEDRB]Isaiah 7:14[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Angela77]

Thanks everyone! This clears everything up!

 

[Grace_Angel]

Thanks everyone! This clears everything up!

Phew!!! that was quick! :angel1:

 

[YourAverageJoe]

Where do we get our scriptural evidence for this? How are we certain that she just wasn’t a Virgin BEFORE conceiving Jesus?

I saw a troubling forum on this on a different site. I just wanted to clear things up for myself.

per Scripture, Jesus was a single child up to age 3, recall, that after Joespeh heard that Herod had killed every child up to the age 2, (any child not yet 3), and he himelf died, is when Joseph took Mary and Child (doesnt say CHILDREN), but CHILD, and returned and settled in Galilea (Nazereth). If it is true, that Mary and Joseph had “relations” during these first 3 years, isnt highly concievable they immediataly would have had other children. Nonetheless, scripture says, they returned with child (singular), and not children to Galilea. For Catholics, Jesus was an only child all his life… In fact he confirms this by giving the care of his mother to John, and no other siblings during the passion.

in Christ!

 

[YourAverageJoe]

second, the bible doesnt exactly say how long after the killing of the two year olds was when Herod died. Herod could have died a whole year or two after this event… this would put Jesus as returning to Galilea about 4 or maybe 5 years of age…

Mary had no other kids… Period.!
in Christ!

 

[PennyinCanada]

To question whether Mary was a virgin is to question the Divinity of Christ.
He is the Messiah, the Son of God, Wonder-Counselor, the Prince of Peace! He was not born of man’s will but of God’s will and His design for the salvation of mankind.
To say Mary was not a virgin is to say No to all these things.

For unto us a Child is Born! Rejoice and be glad, and let no one take that from you!
Blessings.

 

[kepha1]

"…To begin with, the Protoevangelium records that when Mary’s birth was prophesied, her mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries (1 Sam. 2:22), and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:36–37). A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity.

However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated “virgin of the Lord,” to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).

According to the Protoevangelium, Joseph was required to regard Mary’s vow of virginity with the utmost respect. The gravity of his responsibility as the guardian of a virgin was indicated by the fact that, when she was discovered to be with child, he had to answer to the Temple authorities, who thought him guilty of defiling a virgin of the Lord. Mary was also accused of having forsaken the Lord by breaking her vow.** Keeping this in mind, it* is an incredible insult to the Blessed Virgin to say that she broke her vow* by bearing children other than her Lord and God, who was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.
** catholic.com/tracts/mary-ever-virgin

The “other children” Mary really has are those “that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus” Rev. 12:17.

Protestants who disagree with the reformers on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary will ultimately disagree who Jesus is.

Best Mary Video Ever:
jesusgentletouch.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-mary-video-every-made.html

 

[jschutzm]

Where do we get our scriptural evidence for this? How are we certain that she just wasn’t a Virgin BEFORE conceiving Jesus?

I saw a troubling forum on this on a different site. I just wanted to clear things up for myself.

There is a prophesy in the Old Testament about After the Messiah comes, that the “door” will be shut… because any “door” that God passes through, can not be entered by man.

I’d have to look it up. Catholics see this as referring to Mary, as Jesus was born through her and thus NO man can enter after that. Jews would be aware of this prophesy and therefore this would mean that Joseph would have reason NOT to have sexual intercourse with her after giving birth to the messiah.

However, that verse alone (wish I could recall it) does not ALONE prove or disprove anything.

But if we take many verses together… like Jesus’s action on the cross, the fact that the language of the day didn’t differentiate between cousins and siblings, and that “until” does not mean she definitely had sex afterwards… then we can begin to see the biblical basis of the idea that Mary was a perpetual virgin.

However, without derailing the conversation… I’d like to point out another flaw in “Sola Scriptura” or ‘bible alone’ theology. Often times the Bible does not give us ENOUGH information to make a definitive pronouncement either way. This is WHY we also need to look at the teachings of the apostles in addition to scripture as well as the understanding of early Christians who were taught by the Apostles or those taught by those who were taught by the Apostles - aka “the early church fathers”

What HISTORY illustrates us is that doubt of the perpetual virginity of Mary is a fairly recent occurrence within Christendom as a whole. Even the early Protestant reformers defended and believed in it.

But to answer the OP’s question - NO, there is no single definitive verse which says bluntly… “…and Mary remained a virgin, all the days of her life” Sadly NO.

But also… to be clear… there is nothing which says the opposite.

 

[A_G]

I have seen and read many scholars discuss that the word for “virgin” in the original manuscripts can also be translated to mean “young woman”…that it was a common understanding that the same word had several definitions…

And also, several books that show where scribes changed the text in the gospel called Matthew from “Jacob was the father of Joseph husband of Mary, out of whom Jesus—the one who is called the Messiah—was born”…in earlier versions of the book, to…” Jacob was father of Joseph, to whom was betrothed the virgin Mary from who Jesus—etc,"…where the word “virgin” was added in by copyists in later texts.

So I assume these might be bits from the discussions you saw on the other sites discussing the bible?

Of course, unless we have Mary’s doctor show us x-rays, we can’t prove it.
If you believe it, you must believe how the story was passed along verbally, written down later, then translated/interpreted…and you have to believe what the church tells you.

The Old (prophecies) as well as the New Testaments (Gospels written by the apostles) both point to the virgin birth. Jesus wouldn’t lead us to believe things that are false. Yes, I believe Jesus is the founder of the Catholic Church.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Christ_Handing_the_Keys_to_St.Peter_by_Pietro_Perugino%28crop%29.jpg
… and therefore I believe Mary was a virgin her whole life!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Amazing the difference between using the words, “you HAVE to believe what the Church teaches” (makes people sound like brainwashed robots at the mercy of some crackpots who will tell them any old lie)

and “you CHOOSE to believe what the Church teaches” (because you’ve used your God-given intellect to listen, to read, to ponder, to explore, to hear the voices of thousands and thousands of those who like you have sought to find Truth, and have found it in Christ Jesus, and who trust in Him.)

I’d venture to say that most practicing Christians are a lot closer to the second paragraph’s language in how and why they believe.

 

[Mardoc]

You should stay away form these other sites.

Matthew 1:24 “When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. (25) But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son.”

This verse clearly indicates that Mary did not remain a virgin after Jesus’ birth. Joseph had union with Mary after Jesus was born. Mary conceived and gave birth to other children, one of which was James, brother of Jesus.

 

[LightBound]

Matthew 1:24 “When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. (25) But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son.”

This verse clearly indicates that Mary did not remain a virgin after Jesus’ birth. Joseph had union with Mary after Jesus was born. Mary conceived and gave birth to other children, one of which was James, brother of Jesus.

This thread has been inactive for quite awhile…but you might try reading this to see what is really meant by those verses:
catholic.com/tracts/mary-ever-virgin

 

[The_Scott]

Matthew 1:24 “When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. (25) But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son.”

This verse clearly indicates that Mary did not remain a virgin after Jesus’ birth. Joseph had union with Mary after Jesus was born. Mary conceived and gave birth to other children, one of which was James, brother of Jesus.

“Her husband loved her until the day she died.”

According to your logic, the sentence above indicates that the husband despised his late-wife upon her death.

It’s an idiom, friend.

 

[LightBound]

“Her husband loved her until the day she died.”

According to your logic, the sentence above indicates that the husband despised his late-wife upon her death.

It’s an idiom, friend.

 

[katholikos12]

Matthew 1:24 “When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. (25) But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son.”

This verse clearly indicates that Mary did not remain a virgin after Jesus’ birth. Joseph had union with Mary after Jesus was born. Mary conceived and gave birth to other children, one of which was James, brother of Jesus.

false. the word until only indicates that something occurs afterwards in modern times. The Bible says until this present day no one knows where Moses is buried.

clearly the “present day” that it was written in has passed. But do we know where he is buried? Nope.

 

[katholikos12]

Man we jumped on this post like starving man on christmas turkey didn’t we?

 

[BettyBoop416]

Man we jumped on this post like starving man on christmas turkey didn’t we?

Nothing gets Catholics all hot and bothered like someone questioning Mary’s perpetual virginity. Except maybe questioning the absence of coat racks in Catholic churches.