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Holly3278
Guest
Hi everyone. I have been debating Islam with a Muslim and one of the claims of Islam is that the modern Bible is corrupt. How do we know that the modern Bible is not corrupt? 
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Jolly_Joe
Guest
Well first you have to define what do you mean by corrupt?
If you mean are we absolutely certain about every single letter and word, then yes, there is some corruption, more in the Old Testament than the New.
If you mean do we know the teachings of the original with very solid certainty, well then yes the bible is not corrupt.
Don’t waste time debating when you don’t even know what the words mean.
Now here’s a big thing to know. Many Muslims believe a myth, they believe the Quran is perfect. That’s just not true. And they often believe that all copies of the Quran in Arabic are exactly the same, again a myth.
So they hold up the perfect preservation of the Quran as proof God is protecting it, but the reason it’s so amazing is it’s a myth, a fairy tale.
Look up “textual criticism of the Quran” (or Koran spelling differ) and you can quickly show the copies in Arabic aren’t exactly the same.
And we know that parts of it are missing. For instance the part the goat ate which has an event recorded in the Hadiths which is missing from the current Quran.
Too bad they lost the original, but it’s understandable since it was written on leaves, and bones, and stones. Then people memorized it, but all sorts of variations developed so one guy decided to come up with one. So they did their best to get it. But some parts were only remembered by one person. Now maybe it was actually a part and maybe all those who didn’t remember it were right, we will never know. And then they did their best to destroy the variants.
But in any case, we know with certainty the Quran is not perfect. Ask the Muslim if he means corrupt as in anything less than perfect, he will almost certainly say yes, and then show him where the Quran is not letter perfect and ask where that leaves him.
Now I will warn you, this sort of thing is what is called a folk religion. Most Muslims have been taught this from very a very early age and so even when presented with conclusive proof, they likely just won’t be able to believe it. It’s so ingrained it’s like a part of them.
It’s much like when someone will say something is in the bible, like “God helps them who help themself.” Then whey you show them it isn’t in there, they can’t believe it anyway.
So just be aware of this all. For many Muslims, their most strongly held beliefs about the Quran are falsehoods, myths.
If you can actually get through to them things tend to really tumble down.
If you mean are we absolutely certain about every single letter and word, then yes, there is some corruption, more in the Old Testament than the New.
If you mean do we know the teachings of the original with very solid certainty, well then yes the bible is not corrupt.
Don’t waste time debating when you don’t even know what the words mean.
Now here’s a big thing to know. Many Muslims believe a myth, they believe the Quran is perfect. That’s just not true. And they often believe that all copies of the Quran in Arabic are exactly the same, again a myth.
So they hold up the perfect preservation of the Quran as proof God is protecting it, but the reason it’s so amazing is it’s a myth, a fairy tale.
Look up “textual criticism of the Quran” (or Koran spelling differ) and you can quickly show the copies in Arabic aren’t exactly the same.
And we know that parts of it are missing. For instance the part the goat ate which has an event recorded in the Hadiths which is missing from the current Quran.
Too bad they lost the original, but it’s understandable since it was written on leaves, and bones, and stones. Then people memorized it, but all sorts of variations developed so one guy decided to come up with one. So they did their best to get it. But some parts were only remembered by one person. Now maybe it was actually a part and maybe all those who didn’t remember it were right, we will never know. And then they did their best to destroy the variants.
But in any case, we know with certainty the Quran is not perfect. Ask the Muslim if he means corrupt as in anything less than perfect, he will almost certainly say yes, and then show him where the Quran is not letter perfect and ask where that leaves him.
Now I will warn you, this sort of thing is what is called a folk religion. Most Muslims have been taught this from very a very early age and so even when presented with conclusive proof, they likely just won’t be able to believe it. It’s so ingrained it’s like a part of them.
It’s much like when someone will say something is in the bible, like “God helps them who help themself.” Then whey you show them it isn’t in there, they can’t believe it anyway.
So just be aware of this all. For many Muslims, their most strongly held beliefs about the Quran are falsehoods, myths.
If you can actually get through to them things tend to really tumble down.
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Jolly_Joe
Guest
Oh, I should also point out that the idea the Bible is corrupt is a corruption of what the Quran actually says. It says people corrupt the message, but if you study what Mohammed said about the Bible itself, he respected it, even using it to decide a court case. The Quran doesn’t say the Bible is corrupt but what the Jews and Christians say is corrupt.
There is some truth in that. It appears for instance that the Christians Mohammed knew were likely in a Marian cult. When you read about his complaints about the Trinity, it really looks like the Trinity being taught was God the Father, God the Son, and God the Mother, Mary. The Holy Spirit is never mentioned as a part of the Trinity.
It should be noted to the Muslim, Mohammeds respect of the Bible and he should be asked why if Mohammed respected the Bible why he doesn’t?
Matter of fact, corruption of much of the Bible would be impossible according to the Quran.
Sura 2:87 says God gave Moses the Book and followed him with a succession of messengers.
In 4:163 it talks of those messengers and God says he gave David the Psalms.
And in 3:3 and 5:46 it talks about how God sent the Law and the Gospel.
So the Bible is clearly being referenced in the Quran as sent by God, his word.
In 6:34 6:115 and 10:64 it makes the claim that none can alter the word of God. This is part of the myth about the perfect Quran. But what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The Quran refers to the Book which is how it refers to the Bible (both words mean exactly the same thing, I think they translate it that way just to make it less clear) as the word of God and says the word of God can’t be altered.
So how is this explained by the Muslim? Has the impossible happened? Why does he believe the word of God is corrupt?
There is some truth in that. It appears for instance that the Christians Mohammed knew were likely in a Marian cult. When you read about his complaints about the Trinity, it really looks like the Trinity being taught was God the Father, God the Son, and God the Mother, Mary. The Holy Spirit is never mentioned as a part of the Trinity.
It should be noted to the Muslim, Mohammeds respect of the Bible and he should be asked why if Mohammed respected the Bible why he doesn’t?
Matter of fact, corruption of much of the Bible would be impossible according to the Quran.
Sura 2:87 says God gave Moses the Book and followed him with a succession of messengers.
In 4:163 it talks of those messengers and God says he gave David the Psalms.
And in 3:3 and 5:46 it talks about how God sent the Law and the Gospel.
So the Bible is clearly being referenced in the Quran as sent by God, his word.
In 6:34 6:115 and 10:64 it makes the claim that none can alter the word of God. This is part of the myth about the perfect Quran. But what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The Quran refers to the Book which is how it refers to the Bible (both words mean exactly the same thing, I think they translate it that way just to make it less clear) as the word of God and says the word of God can’t be altered.
So how is this explained by the Muslim? Has the impossible happened? Why does he believe the word of God is corrupt?
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Holly3278
Guest
Thank you for your two replies Jolly Joe. 
They are very helpful and I will use the information that you gave me in my future debates with Muslims. 
They are very helpful and I will use the information that you gave me in my future debates with Muslims.
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William1964
Guest
A very informative reply Jolly. I enjoyed the information.
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chichizola
Guest
The Bible is inspired by God, not dictated by Him. The original authors could only write from their experiences, therefore the Bible, could be said, is inspiration and tradition from the begining.
But, being corrupt. No, it is not.
Now Muslims believe that the prophet was taken in a physical trip to heaven and was able to talk to God and the Prophets. When he was back, he dictated their coran. I guess that is why they may believe that their coran is pure.
Ask your friend, with charity, to explain why was Jesus born from a Virgin, and but the prophet wasn’t
.
God Bless you,
But, being corrupt. No, it is not.
Now Muslims believe that the prophet was taken in a physical trip to heaven and was able to talk to God and the Prophets. When he was back, he dictated their coran. I guess that is why they may believe that their coran is pure.
Ask your friend, with charity, to explain why was Jesus born from a Virgin, and but the prophet wasn’t
.God Bless you,
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NotWorthy
Guest
If one studied how the Quran was “compiled”, they would find the original claim by the Muslim to the OP as ridiculous.The Bible is inspired by God, not dictated by Him. The original authors could only write from their experiences, therefore the Bible, could be said, is inspiration and tradition from the begining.
But, being corrupt. No, it is not.
Now Muslims believe that the prophet was taken in a physical trip to heaven and was able to talk to God and the Prophets. When he was back, he dictated their coran. I guess that is why they may believe that their coran is pure.
Ask your friend, with charity, to explain why was Jesus born from a Virgin, and but the prophet wasn’t
God Bless you,
The Quran was written on anything capable of handling script - palm leaves, papyrus, the shoulder bone of a lamb, etc., over a period of time. The pieces were put into a chest. Some of the pieces were eaten by animals (I would assume the palm leaves, but I can’t be sure). I don’t believe is was ever compiled until the 3rd or 4th caliph.
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thistle
Guest
And when it was finally compiled the compilers thought everything written would be verified by the Bible. When it wasn’t they were stuck for an answer so the simplest thing was to say the Bible must be corrupt. Islam frankly is a complete joke.
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