How do you define "Supernatural?"

[SunshineZA]

Supernatural - In the ordinary course of things, either heaven or hell, God or the Devil, spirits from above or spirits from beneath, are always in the background of all the spiritual and supernatural activities upon earth. The Antichrist, his prophet and the beast in the Apocalypse possesses supernatural power.

God’s power is supernaturally displayed in unexplained phenomina i.e. Moses & the ten plagues, the Shekinah Glory in the form of a pillar of smoke and a fire by night during the 40 years wandering in the desert. Apostles healing the sick and driving out demons. prophetic dreams and visions, apparitions of Mary etc.

 

[RobbyS]

Brilliant. Thanks. I tend to go with #3.

Agreed. Which is why so many “liberals” i.e devotees of the Enlightenment reject the idea of the incarnation. Christianity is really a “grubby” religion because it demands involvement
in the “material” world. We do have to get our hands dirty. The Jews and Muslims also
have a sense of this, with the Torah prescriptions and Sharia Law. But we insist on something “deeper,” an effort to get at the heart of “things.” because we have before us the thought that God in the form of Jesus planted his feet on the ground and looked at things
with eyes like ours, and humbled himself to learn as we learn. But even before that, from the moment he planted himself in Mary’s Garden, he learned how to seek the sun and grow as we grow.

 

[tonyrey]

I always like the quote from Einstein - there are two ways to live, one as if there are no miracles and the other is if everything is a miracle.

There is no conflict because the conception of God as a super intelligence existing entirely separate from the world is not theism but deism. Unlike the pantheist Spinoza - who identified God with Nature - Christians are theists who believe the Creator is not only transcendent but also immanent: “In Him we live, move and have our being”. The fact of life is a miracle but miracles are not restricted to the fact of life! We have the best of both worlds…

 

[Moonstruck888]

Current science suggests a similar thing by positing the String Theory and 14 dimensions to describe all reality.

This is a very popular misconception. It takes a ten dimensional matrix to describe space-time in string theory, but in a matrix all a dimension is is a property with variable magnitude. This does not in any way constitute scientific evidence for corresponding spatial dimensions.

The explanations for why the missing dimensions are unobservable are, to put it mildly, difficult to substantiate.

 

[Leela]

There is no conflict because the conception of God as a super intelligence existing entirely separate from the world is not theism but deism. Unlike the pantheist Spinoza - who identified God with Nature - Christians are theists who believe the Creator is not only transcendent but also immanent: “In Him we live, move and have our being”. The fact of life is a miracle but miracles are not restricted to the fact of life! We have the best of both worlds…

The issue I was raising with the Einstein quote that you did not address is whether (a) nothing is a miracle (b) everything is a miracle (c) miracles happen once in a while.

My understanding is that the Catholic position is (c) rather than the position that the Einstein quote seems to support.

 

[tonyrey]

The issue I was raising with the Einstein quote that you did not address is whether (a) nothing is a miracle (b) everything is a miracle (c) miracles happen once in a while.

My understanding is that the Catholic position is (c) rather than the position that the Einstein quote seems to support.

It depends on one’s definition of a miracle. If it is a suspension of natural laws it is limited to an occasion when God intervenes. If it is an act of God the Creation of the universe and natural laws themselves are miracles. To produce something from nothing is justifiably regarded as miraculous… On that reading (b) and (c) are both true.

 

[abucs]

Hi Leela,

the Church and her Theologians have spent thousands of years thinking about this and have different conceptual frameworks. Some have spoken about the Universe springing from the mind of God, or God’s command or ‘Word’. (i.e. Jesus) being through which all Creation springs. (Gospel of John). Some talk about the Universe as being underpinned by the conscious thought of God so that "if God stopped thinking about us, the whole Universe would instantly dissappear.’

The Christian Theologian Isaac Newton developed this further postulating that because God was a rational being through which the Universe operates - His Word/laws should be able to be described by rational mathematics and be present throughout all Creation - hence the birth of Universal Scientific Laws.

If you take the so called Gospel of Thomas, Jesus speaks about God’s Kingdom as something that cannot be observed and goes on to say ‘lift up a rock, I am there’ etc. Luke says ‘the Kingdowm of God is within you’. Jesus in Matthew’s Gospel says - “you cannot go where i am going”. All point to a non 3 dimensional view of reality when including ‘the Supernatural’.

There are different takes on this but i am not aware of it being unorthodox Catholicism to believe God underpins our Universe and is omnipresent (in relation to our limited 3 dimensions plus time). Thus Einstein’s quote hold particular relevance for me as a Christian in viewing ‘the Supernatural.’

I think the idea of a grey bearded man in the clouds stretching out his hand in an unfathomable way is good for art and as a caricature (for non believers) but is very far from orthodox Church teaching in my understanding.

Hi Moonstruck888,

thanks for your post. Am i understanding correctly that you are saying the ‘other’ 7,8,9 etc missing dimensions in string theory are actually part of our usual 3 dimensional space ?

I would appreciate any links that you may have to explain this idea further.

Thankyou.

 

[abucs]

More info from a Catholic viewpoint.

Matthew says -
“And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”

The Catholic Eucharist points to a Supernatural presence with us beyond 3 dimensional space.

Reported apparatitions also have this feature of a World beyond 3 dimensions interacting with us.

Concepts of prayer and grace are examples of a reality (as Catholics see it) beyond 3 dimensions constantly interacting with us.

 

[Moonstruck888]

Hi Moonstruck888,

thanks for your post. Am i understanding correctly that you are saying the ‘other’ 7,8,9 etc missing dimensions in string theory are actually part of our usual 3 dimensional space ?

I would appreciate any links that you may have to explain this idea further.

Thankyou.

No, what I was meaning was that it is a problem of string theory that people confuse dimensions in a mathematical matrix with spatial dimensions.

All string theory boils down to is a clever way of arranging numbers. There is zero evidence that it corresponds to physical reality. I honestly wouldn’t waste much time on string theory, or to be more correct the string hypothesis, if I were you. It’s pseudoscience.

 

[abucs]

OK, thanks Moonstruck888.