How do you politely refute the "I'm a good person argument"?

[lisa238]

It seems like I repeatedly encounter people who don’t care about going to chuch or doing anything related to religion because they make the claim “I think if I try to be a good person I will be rewarded by a higher power in the afterlife.” Most of these people doubt that God exists, although they are not atheists.

Every time I hear this reasoning I get angry because I want them to be able to know God, and they seem to use this logic to justify all sorts of sins. For example, I had a boyfriend who used to say “It doesn’t matter if me touching you is a sin, because if we both try to be good people and we don’t go around killing people, we can still get to heaven.”

The way people try to say all they have to do is try to be “a good person” just drives me nuts, but I don’t want to start arguments over it. All I would like to do is gently explain to them why they need to do more then just try to be “a good person” and do some mild evangelization, but not enough to make them get overly defensive.

 

[hunter2]

because they make the claim “I think if I try to be a good person I will be rewarded by a higher power in the afterlife.”

I am one of those “good people” who are agnostic. You could probably find some polite way to try to convince me about your religion. But I would politely inform you that when I say I am a “good person”, I mean it. I am as convinced of my goodness as you are of yours. And any further “evangelizing” is somewhat insulting. It would be the equivalent of me telling you that you are deluded and irrational, and that you should stop it with all the hocus pocus. As far as an eternal reward type situation. I certainly would like to get on that bus, but I have no way of knowing if there are any special requirements by the supernatural beings. Too many people have put forth too many ideas for me to sort through them all. So I just use my tiny little brain and try to figure out what a benevolent god would do. If it is a malevolent one, then all bets are off anyway.

 

[jmcrae]

It seems like I repeatedly encounter people who don’t care about going to chuch or doing anything related to religion because they make the claim “I think if I try to be a good person I will be rewarded by a higher power in the afterlife.” Most of these people doubt that God exists, although they are not atheists.

Ask them what they think a “good person” is. Then ask them how close they come to their ideal.

Every time I hear this reasoning I get angry because I want them to be able to know God, and they seem to use this logic to justify all sorts of sins. For example, I had a boyfriend who used to say “It doesn’t matter if me touching you is a sin, because if we both try to be good people and we don’t go around killing people, we can still get to heaven.”

I would have asked him how touching me in a way or in a place that I don’t want to be touched lines up with “trying to be a good person.”

 

[hunter2]

I would have asked him how touching me in a way or in a place that I don’t want to be touched lines up with “trying to be a good person.”

That is a good point. But I think the boyfriend was trying to say that they BOTH would still get into heaven if they touched each other. He was trying to persuade her to agree that it was ok. I think.

 

[SedesDomi]

It seems like I repeatedly encounter people who don’t care about going to chuch or doing anything related to religion because they make the claim “I think if I try to be a good person I will be rewarded by a higher power in the afterlife.”

The afterlife is a future event.

The present-life is a now event.

The best way to evangelize is to live your life in such a Christ-like manner, that people see that to live Christ-like has direct results not simply in the after-life, but in the present-life, results that go beyond being “merely good”.

Anybody can be good, do good things, say nice words, treat people with respect. Even Scientologists do that. (No disrespect to Scientologists.)

The questions is, is being “good” enough? Is there something “more”?

Christ said something about giving up the “self”. That goes beyond simply “being good”. That goes to the heart of the issue.

And the best way to evangelize giving up the self, is to live the life of giving up the self, and letting your life be the demonstration and incarnation of selflessness.

 

[stbruno]

I always tell them…that’s a good start, but it’s only a start. it’s a lifetime journey to get to heaven, so what’s your next move?

 

[GAHere]

Interesting topic!

That ‘be a good person’ rule only applies to those who don’t know Christ so the first thing I’d do is inquire about their baptismal status.

If the people stating such a philosophy are baptized Catholic then I work harder to help them understand that guideline will work against them rather for them (think Parable of the Talents Matthew 25:14-30 and Mark 8:35-38). Basically what that says quite clearly is that those who know of Christ and of His ways but choose to ignore the teachings will be judged harsher than those who knew nothing or little. So if the person was confirmed as a young adult, there’s more obligation on that person to wise up real fast rather than settle for what they think is the sure and easy way into heaven.

If the person is Christian but not baptized trinitarian with water then that philosophy will help. You’re still obliged to use what relationship they have with Christ to lead them closer to Him. The spirit will do the rest on that person’s journey.

If the person is athiest or of some other non-Christian faith then you’re just obliged to be the Light which leads them to want to know more. It is the spirit who will trigger when the person’s curiosity awakens so there’s really nothing you can say to get the person to listen. Just be. Catholic. and pray.

 

[jmcrae]

That is a good point. But I think the boyfriend was trying to say that they BOTH would still get into heaven if they touched each other. He was trying to persuade her to agree that it was ok. I think.

Uh - so, you don’t actually have to be “good” to be a “good person”?

And God’s gonna buy that. Riiiiight.

 

[JRKH]

It seems like I repeatedly encounter people who don’t care about going to chuch or doing anything related to religion because they make the claim “I think if I try to be a good person I will be rewarded by a higher power in the afterlife.” Most of these people doubt that God exists, although they are not atheists.

First of all it is important to realize that this attitude is coming from 2 possible sources.
One is laziness - Never had religion, and don’t want to bother looking for it.
Second is Disappointment - Had religion and didn’t like it.
In either case the statement is designed to close off any dialog re: religion.

If they believe in, or at least invoke, a higher power, then you could gently inform them that it isn’t important what they think regarding being a good person, but rather what the Higher power thinks. Different religious paths have different doctrines and codes. Do they subscribe to any particular line of reasoning defining “Good Person” or are they just making it up as they go.

Every time I hear this reasoning I get angry because I want them to be able to know God, and they seem to use this logic to justify all sorts of sins. For example, I had a boyfriend who used to say “It doesn’t matter if me touching you is a sin, because if we both try to be good people and we don’t go around killing people, we can still get to heaven.”

I know it is difficult but DON’T get angry. This is the worst thing.
As far as the “Boyfriend” situation, you can simply explain to him that his touching you in ways that YOU find offensive to YOUR faith automatically means he is not a good person because he is disrespectful of you as a person. (I know you don’t have this boyfriend anymore.)

The way people try to say all they have to do is try to be “a good person” just drives me nuts, but I don’t want to start arguments over it. All I would like to do is gently explain to them why they need to do more then just try to be “a good person” and do some mild evangelization, but not enough to make them get overly defensive.

Employ your signature line:
“Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary use words.” - Saint Francis of Assisi
Be patient. Live your faith. Be open to them. Pray.

Peace
James

 

[quiet52]

It seems like I repeatedly encounter people who don’t care about going to chuch or doing anything related to religion because they make the claim “I think if I try to be a good person I will be rewarded by a higher power in the afterlife.”

…The way people try to say all they have to do is try to be “a good person” just drives me nuts…

Drives me nuts too. But yes, because we’re all God’s creations, of course we’re GOOD! But heaven isn’t automatic … no matter what some people believe. We’re also “bad” – when we choose to sin.

I’m looking at my man-made computer keyboard right now – lotsa dust around all the keys, because I haven’t cleaned it in over a year. I’m hoping it’s not going to quit on me for my lack of maintenance.

Anyway, God’s told us we’ve got to be restored to, and maintain, our goodness by cooperating with His graces. We do this through the Church – by following her teachings, availing ourselves of her sacraments, and walking with and loving others. We’re not in this journey of holiness alone. God is Truth and Love – we cannot truly love without being in relationship with Him and with others, in ways willed by God, not by the world.

 

[jimcav]

The problem I see with people that say they are “a good person” is the fact that it is they themselves that set the bar for what being “a good person” is, and they will not set the bar higher than they can attain. They reach a comfort level that says, “well, I didn’t murder someone today so I’m a good person”, but they somehow overlook the lies that they may have said, or the cheating they might have done that day. In other words, the bar they set is way to low.

Religon, especially Catholicism sets the bar high, higher than most anyone of us can attain, so alot of people shun religon for fear of failure. Whie we might fail, we should still push ourselves ever higher, and we as humans cannot do that on our own…

 

[hunter2]

Uh - so, you don’t actually have to be “good” to be a “good person”?

And God’s gonna buy that. Riiiiight.

What can you possibly mean by that? Did you get the point of my post at all? Good people have non-marital sex with each other all the time. This does not make one bad.

 

[jmcrae]

What can you possibly mean by that? Did you get the point of my post at all? Good people have non-marital sex with each other all the time. This does not make one bad.

Nice people do this. Good people do not do this. Part of the definition of “good people” is that they do the things that are generally seen as “good” and avoid doing things that are generally seen as “bad.”

Extra-marital sex is considered “bad” by every culture that has ever existed, with two exceptions: Rome in its decadent years, and secular Western culture since the 1960s.

But there is a huge difference between nice people and good people. Princess Diana was nice. Mother Teresa was good.

 

[hunter2]

Nice people do this. Good people do not do this. Part of the definition of “good people” is that they do the things that are generally seen as “good” and avoid doing things that are generally seen as “bad.”

Extra-marital sex is considered “bad” by every culture that has ever existed, with two exceptions: Rome in its decadent years, and secular Western culture since the 1960s.

But there is a huge difference between nice people and good people. Princess Diana was nice. Mother Teresa was good.

And this is exactly why you should never actually talk. “good” is not defined by what is generally accepted. You have no morals if you think that is the case. Sex has been around for millions of years before “marriage” was invented. Societies started to develop systems for a secure environment for the perpetuation of the species,a system of rules to handle the granting of property rights, and the protection of bloodlines. The institution of marriage handled these needs. For instance, ancient Hebrew law required a man to become the husband of a deceased brother’s widow. These were just artificial rules to engineer society. Your superstitions cause you to be incredibly stupid.

 

[Jennifer123]

What does “good” mean? No one is “good” enough to get to heaven. No one can get there by doing “good” things.

 

[jmcrae]

And this is exactly why you should never actually talk. “good” is not defined by what is generally accepted.

Well, you’re right - God defines “good” by the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount, both of which condemn extramarital sex. But when we look at the lowest common denominator, we see that the lowest common denominator also sees extra-marital sex as “bad” rather than “good.”

You have no morals if you think that is the case.

I don’t think I’m worried about what someone like you thinks of my morals.

Sex has been around for millions of years before “marriage” was invented. Your superstitions cause you to be incredibly stupid.

Marriage has been around since Adam and Eve, along with sex. Sex was designed by God for married people, because children (who are the natural result of sex when it’s being done correctly) need both a mother and a father - it’s how God (or Nature, if you prefer) designed them.

 

[hunter2]

What does “good” mean? No one is “good” enough to get to heaven. No one can get there by doing “good” things.

Then you are saying that god is evil. If a person dedicates his life to helping others, he is “good”. If a god does not let him into heaven, then that god is evil.

 

[hunter2]

Well, you’re right - God defines “good” by the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount, both of which condemn extramarital sex. But when we look at the lowest common denominator, we see that the lowest common denominator also sees extra-marital sex as “bad” rather than “good.”

What lowest common denominator? What the hell are you talking about. Extra-marital sex is not even remotely bad. Where do you get this stuff?

Marriage has been around since Adam and Eve, along with sex. Sex was designed by God for married people, because children (who are the natural result of sex when it’s being done correctly) need both a mother and a father - it’s how God (or Nature, if you prefer) designed them.

Wow!!! Adam and Eve? You actually think that was a literal story. Ask you parents. The biblical creation story was allegorical. How sad for you.

 

[jmcrae]

What lowest common denominator? What the hell are you talking about. Extra-marital sex is not even remotely bad. Where do you get this stuff?

The Bible, and other holy books and philosophical writings from other cultures.

Where do you get your stuff?

 

[jmcrae]

Then you are saying that god is evil. If a person dedicates his life to helping others, he is “good”. If a god does not let him into heaven, then that god is evil.

How is he “helping others” by having extra-marital sex? Instead, he is more likely to be wrecking people’s lives by transmitting various diseases to them, and getting people pregnant out of wedlock; not helping them.