How does the Catholic Church justify U.N. membership?

[mshealy]

In a recent issue of “The Economist,” the issue was once again raised concerning the Church’s membership in the U.N. What exactly is the legal/political/theological/moral basis for this? Why is the Catholic Church a member, but no other religious body?
Does anyone know of a good book on the topic?

 

[Mannyfit75]

In a recent issue of “The Economist,” the issue was once again raised concerning the Church’s membership in the U.N. What exactly is the legal/political/theological/moral basis for this? Why is the Catholic Church a member, but no other religious body?
Does anyone know of a good book on the topic?

The Catholic Church has a member because it also a state.

Wikipedia explains this:

head of state and head of government of Vatican City. He is simultaneously and primordially the bishop of the Diocese of Rome, and Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church. The term Holy See expresses the totality of his governance and pastoral ministry. His official title with regard to Vatican City is Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City.

The papacy is a non-hereditary, elective monarchy, chosen by the College of Cardinals. The pope is also technically an absolute monarch, meaning he has total legislative, executive and judicial power over the Vatican City. He is the only absolute monarch in Europe.

The pope is elected for a life term in conclave by cardinals under the age of 80. His principal subordinate government officials for Vatican City are the Secretary of State, the President of the Pontifical Commission for Vatican City State, and the Governor of Vatican City.

The current Pope is Benedict XVI, born Joseph Alois Ratzinger in Bavaria, Germany. Tarcisio Cardinal Bertone of Italy is the Secretary of State. Italian Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo serves as both the President of the Pontifical Commission and Governor. Both Bertone and Lajolo were appointed by Pope Benedict XVI in September 2006.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City#Head_of_State

 

[Mannyfit75]

I also like to add the following. The United Nation members are primary the Third World countries. In these countries there is poverty. The Vatican which shows a deep concern with the welfare of the people must serve as advisers when World Leaders are confronted with moral dilemma.

I also recommend you read this addressed to the UN made by the late Pope John Paul the Great.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1995/october/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_05101995_address-to-uno_en.html

 

[Genesis315]

Is Vatican City actually a full member? I thought they just had observer status.

edit: here is what the wiki says:

In addition to the member states discussed above, there is one non-member observer state, the Holy See (which holds sovereignty over the state of Vatican City). It has been a permanent observer state since 6 April 1964. Non-member observer states are recognized as sovereign entities, and are free to submit a petition to join as a full member at their discretion. For example, Switzerland was also a permanent observer state from 1948 to 2002, until becoming a full member on 10 September 2002.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_member_states

 

[Genesis315]

Anyway, Christ is the King of kings, and His Vicar on Earth, the Pope, has to make sure all the rulers of the world here their King’s voice.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Anyway, Christ is the King of kings, as His Vicar on Earth, the Pope, has to make sure all the rulers of the world here their King’s voice.

Exactly.

 

[porthos11]

In a recent issue of “The Economist,” the issue was once again raised concerning the Church’s membership in the U.N. What exactly is the legal/political/theological/moral basis for this? Why is the Catholic Church a member, but no other religious body?
Does anyone know of a good book on the topic?

Let’s clarify.

The Catholic Church is not a member of the United Nations. The Church is bigger than any measly organization such as that.

However, it is the Holy See (i.e. the Diocese of Rome) that possesses OBSERVER status to the UN, not membership.

 

[Hastrman]

The Church justifies such membership as it has always justified its entanglement with worldly power: it is more important that it be able to somewhat influence the State than that it remain unsullied from everything the State does. It can’t really be sullied, of course, but it can appear to be (causing scandal), but such scandal is not as bad as the State would be without the Church.

There are three alternatives to this: Hermitage, Ultramontanism, and Caesaropapism.

Hermitage means the Church leaves the world to its own devices, which is not an option since not everyone is a monk.

Ultramontanism is vesting supreme secular power in the Church herself, making the Pope also the Emperor. This is bad because worldly leaders have, among other things, to use force (which is inappropriate for a priest). The Papal States had this condition for a while, and it didn’t work out well at all.

Caesaropapism is giving the state control over the Church. This is even worse than Ultramontanism–think the Avignon Papacy rubber-stamping the purge of the Templars. This has often been a problem in the Orthodox Churches, especially in the days of Byzantium, and again under the Tsar.

The Church has chosen the (perhaps less-than-ideal) option it had during the Middle Ages, the Enlightenment, and modern history: it has ties to power, so that it can manipulate power to serve Christ.

 

[Lepanto]

Let’s clarify.

The Catholic Church is not a member of the United Nations. The Church is bigger than any measly organization such as that.

However, it is the Holy See (i.e. the Diocese of Rome) that possesses OBSERVER status to the UN, not membership.

Exactly.

I was at the UN headqarters last year on a tour and I asked about this. They said that the HOLY SEE is an observer, not a member. An observer because it doesn’t want to be seen as taking sides in political conflict. Also, they made the point that the Catholic Church is not associated with the UN, but the Holy See. The Holy See is a political institution, just like other countries.

 

[puzzleannie]

In a recent issue of “The Economist,” the issue was once again raised concerning the Church’s membership in the U.N. What exactly is the legal/political/theological/moral basis for this? Why is the Catholic Church a member, but no other religious body?
Does anyone know of a good book on the topic?

the Catholic Church is not a UN member and does not seek UN membership. for one thing she could not afford it. what she does have and seeks to retain, along with a number of other organizations, is non-voting observer status. to be specific, the Vatican, which is the political unit, has the status, not the Church.

 

[Leopard]

As for justifying this status, Vatican City State has as much right as any other sovereign state. Do other nations need to justify their membership or observer status?

 

[porthos11]

As for justifying this status, Vatican City State has as much right as any other sovereign state. Do other nations need to justify their membership or observer status?

Further clarification. It’s not the State of the Vatican City that has observer status, but the Holy See, i.e. the governing body of the diocese of Rome (and, by extension, the Catholic Church). Vatican City dates back to only 1929, but the diplomatic corps of the Holy See has been there since much longer. Even after the fall of the Papal States, and the before the Lateran Treaties, the Holy See maintained diplomatic relations with states.

The Holy See here is functioning as a political and diplomatic unit, and is entitled to full international participation as any sovereign state.

 

[melensdad]

Why is the Catholic Church a member, but no other religious body?

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a religious body/state and a member.

Perhaps I don’t understand the actual question.

But it seems to me that the Baptists, Pagans, Buddhists, etc don’t have a “state” and therefore do not have standing to join the UN.

Vatican City is its own nation, with its own land. It also happens to be the seat of the world’s true religion. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has its own land, it is clearly a nation. It also claims to be the seat of the world’s true religion. The King claims to be a decendent of Muhammad. So how is it different than Vatican City?

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society—ie Jehovah’s Witnesses also have some connection in an official capacity (observer? I don’t know) because it just recently made scandalous headlines since they consider the UN to be the Beast of Revelation…

 

[CrypticWritings]

In a recent issue of “The Economist,” the issue was once again raised concerning the Church’s membership in the U.N. What exactly is the legal/political/theological/moral basis for this? Why is the Catholic Church a member, but no other religious body?
Does anyone know of a good book on the topic?

Because the Holy See is a nation-state it qualifies for participationin the U.N.
However, the Holy See is an observer.
Saudi Arabi is a full member but it has nothing to do with their religious affiliation.

For a real answer you can start here:
un.org/members/nonmembers.shtml

 

[Catholig]

I think its the least that can be done for the Church after all here land (i.e. the papal states) was stolen.

Catholig

 

[Yerusalyim]

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society—ie Jehovah’s Witnesses also have some connection in an official capacity (observer? I don’t know) because it just recently made scandalous headlines since they consider the UN to be the Beast of Revelation…

Actually, the WTBTS has severed this tie with the UN because so many ex JW’s and folks like myself cried HYPOCRICY. The WTBTS and other religious organizations were (and still are minus the WTBTS) registered as NON GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS with the UN.

 

[Evan]

The Holy See (See=seat, Holy See= seat of St Peter) is the bishop of Rome and NOT Vatican City. The Vatican will not send an ambasador to a foreign country. Only the Holy See will send ambasadors (called nuncios).

The international relationship is with the Pope, not Vatican City. If Italy asked the Pope to leave Italy and never come back, and enforced it with arms. The Pope would go into exile (as he did into France at one time). BUT the relationships all countries have with the Holy See would remain intact. So would the relationship of the Holy See with the UN.

The Vatican has no treaties with any country. Condordates exist only between the Holy See and foreign gvts.

All this was explained on an EWTN show out of the Vatican a month ago. Very interesting.

 

[drafdog]

You won’t get an answer to your question on this forum, because no one here has the answer.
Go the the Vatican website and link to the Secretariate of State of Vatican City. Ask your question there. They and only they can give you the real answer. After all, they are the ones observing at the UN.

Matthew