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unitive_mystic
Guest
Is Catholicism exactly the same as it was when it was first started? Some people claim that “Catholicism isn’t original Christianity, Christianity is” like there is a time when Christianity wasn’t catholic.
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joeybaggz
Guest
Well, if it isn’t, what was?
The original church was founded on Peter as its supreme leader and teacher. Today it exists under Peter’s direct successor (s). I do however think there are a few more Catholics today than in 50 A.D. So some differences exist, OBVIOUSLY!
My $.02
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TheLittleLady
Guest
There have been a few changes, we no longer require non-Catholics to leave before the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the priests have faculties to forgive just about every sin now (in the past more were reserved to the Bishop), we no longer baptize people when they are nude.
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joeybaggz
Guest
Thank heaven, considering some of the people I’ve seen enter the church and received baptism. Uh, then again there was that blonde 25 year old model ……. (oh, get your mind out of the gutter, Joey!!! - I can hear Sister Mary Discipline, my seventh grade teacher coming toward my desk with her steel ruler…….
HELP!!!
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unitive_mystic
Guest
“It was just Christian”
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Fauken
Guest
And there’s the million dollar question. What is “just Christian”?
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mVitus
Guest
As a side note to add, it’s my understanding that while in the nude was the norm, it wasn’t strictly required.
Source: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm [text in brackets added by me]
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joeybaggz
Guest
Actually, Christianity was first known as “The Way”
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RandomAlias
Guest
Indeed, not just a way, not one of many ways, but The Way.
Catholic means universal. Literally, from the Greek origins of the word, it means concerning or encompassing the whole. All Christians are one people of one God, although some see themselves as being apart.
Catholic means universal. Literally, from the Greek origins of the word, it means concerning or encompassing the whole. All Christians are one people of one God, although some see themselves as being apart.
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unitive_mystic
Guest
They say “original Christianity was closer to what today is called “non denominational” they believe in the christian God and call themselves Christians, but have no title or denomination other than just Christian.”
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mVitus
Guest
Well there are some similarities.
The Liturgy was not yet fully structured so each church wouod have different readings on Sunday.
Belief in many of the same basic doctrines. (Trinity, Jesus’ two natures, ect.)
Priests were generally more local.
But also some big differences.
Belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
Confession. (Though initially it was more of a 1-time sacrament.)
Baptism not as a sign, but as a sacrament of forgiveness.
A hierarchy.
The Liturgy was not yet fully structured so each church wouod have different readings on Sunday.
Belief in many of the same basic doctrines. (Trinity, Jesus’ two natures, ect.)
Priests were generally more local.
But also some big differences.
Belief in the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
Confession. (Though initially it was more of a 1-time sacrament.)
Baptism not as a sign, but as a sacrament of forgiveness.
A hierarchy.
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Wannano
Guest
I am interested in your post but for sake of clarity, what are you seeing similarities and differences between? Especially under big differences, in other words, are you suggesting those four items did not exist in the early church in the same understanding as exists today?
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Fauken
Guest
But that’s simply not true. First of all, the earliest Christians didn’t call themselves Christians. I can’t remember when that term came into existence, but it wasn’t from that point in time. Also, the Apostles were alive by the time the Church was being attacked by the first heresy to trouble it: the circumcision heresy. And they did not just wave it off as a difference in understanding, they condemned it. There were “denominations” by that point: people for it and against it, and one of those groups was wrong.
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mVitus
Guest
The post is a reply to the one above it. (Discourse doesn’t readily show that when the reply immediately follows.) So similarities/differences between non-denoms and the early church. (And the differences being oresent in the early Church, but not non-denoms
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Wannano
Guest
Ah, I wondered…thanks for clarifying.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
They were called “Christians” first at Antioch as we know from Acts chapter 11.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
Learn about the Early Church, then tell us your conclusions
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Wannano
Guest
How exactly did Catholicism turn into what it is today?
That is a question I have often mulled over. The trouble I have is truly understanding just what it is today for certainly sure.
That is a question I have often mulled over. The trouble I have is truly understanding just what it is today for certainly sure.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Probably the best answer to your question would be “when Islam destroyed the other Apostolic Sees and Constantinople”.
Papal power developed in time. The bishops of Alexandria and occasionally Antioch were apparently comfortable in showing the Roman bishop defiance from time to time and of course Constantinople was happy to do the same.
As these fell one by one, the Pope had fewer legitimate challengers to his authority. With the coronation of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor (Again, made possible by the decline of Byzantine power due to the success of Islamic conquest), the Pope became a temporal power.
I’d say that the high water mark of papal power was the very end of the middle ages. Vatican 1 simply confirmed what most Catholics already believed and was a conciliation for the recent loss of the papal states and the pope’s temporal power.
Papal power developed in time. The bishops of Alexandria and occasionally Antioch were apparently comfortable in showing the Roman bishop defiance from time to time and of course Constantinople was happy to do the same.
As these fell one by one, the Pope had fewer legitimate challengers to his authority. With the coronation of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor (Again, made possible by the decline of Byzantine power due to the success of Islamic conquest), the Pope became a temporal power.
I’d say that the high water mark of papal power was the very end of the middle ages. Vatican 1 simply confirmed what most Catholics already believed and was a conciliation for the recent loss of the papal states and the pope’s temporal power.
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Vonsalza
Guest
The papacy certainly owes quite a bit to Islam.
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