How far is too far?

[Englishguy1988]

Hi everyone this is my first post… I’ve read alot on here but I’m still new to Catholicism so I’m bound to put my foot in it at some point

Anyway on with the question… I’m sure we’ve all heard the how far is too far question but I want to flip that on its head and ask how far is too far romantically because obviously when you date someone you get emotionally attached to them so I guess what I’m really asking is how can I best protect a womans heart if I date her?

How can I do whats best for her emotionally and guard her heart from harm so as not to lead her away from god but to show her love in a Christian way?

(oh and just for the record I have no intention to do anything even remotely sexual with a girlfriend after all why would you want to lead someone you say you love away from god for YOUR “best” intrests surely if you loved her you’d do everything you could to help her know god and be close to him… Even if that’s at your expense)

-thanks for your time everyone

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Welcome out of lurkdom!

As for your question, I am a mom of 2 sons, and I have spent a lot of time thinking about this thing we in the Western world call “dating.” I frankly cannot see any good purpose to it except when one is ready to discern marriage. To start romantically dating a person of the opposite sex at age 15, 16, 17, seems to be to be playing with fire, both emotionally and physically, when most people are not planning to marry. What is the point? Both people usually get hurt, because they do get attached and then they end up separating for whatever reason. Why do that to yourself and another person?

I do support social experiences, but in groups of friends only, not one on one romantic dating. Until one is truly ready to start discerning marriage, it’s only likely to cause pain and scarring of the heart, which impedes getting close to one’s future spouse. And spending time with friends can help one to understand others and not get caught up in someone who is not suited to one.

 

[JRKH]

Hi everyone this is my first post… I’ve read alot on here but I’m still new to Catholicism so I’m bound to put my foot in it at some point

Welcome.

Anyway on with the question… I’m sure we’ve all heard the how far is too far question but I want to flip that on its head and ask how far is too far romantically because obviously when you date someone you get emotionally attached to them so I guess what I’m really asking is how can I best protect a womans heart if I date her?

How can I do whats best for her emotionally and guard her heart from harm so as not to lead her away from god but to show her love in a Christian way?

(oh and just for the record I have no intention to do anything even remotely sexual with a girlfriend after all why would you want to lead someone you say you love away from god for YOUR “best” interests surely if you loved her you’d do everything you could to help her know god and be close to him… Even if that’s at your expense)

-thanks for your time everyone

1. So long as you remain close to God, you cannot lead another away from Him.
2. So long as you are a gentleman and treat the girl like a lady you have done all that you can to “protect her heart”
   The two items listed above mean that you place God first, she knows this early on, and that this is one of the things that attracts her to you (for more than one or two dates).
   Likewise treating her like a lady (holding doors, no “off color” language etc…) while also treating her as the equal that she is in intelligence, capability and deserving of respect will quickly weed out the girls who do not respect themselves and have fallen into the trap of modern cultural trash.

Then look for common interests, likes, dislikes, plans for the future etc…Always with God in the mix.

Peace
James

 

[odile53]

@ Julianne–Does actual dating even exist anymore?

You know what I mean. The man calls the woman several days in advance and asks her to go with him to a planned event–dinner and a movie, some sort of performance, etc, etc. At the time of the date, he arrives at her residence in a functioning motor vehicle which is not covered with dog hair or auto parts on the interior, walks to her door, rings the bell, and then escorts her to the vehicle. They go to the planned event. They may or may not split the tab for it. Then he returns her to her residence and says good night at the door and leaves after ensuring she is safely inside her house.

I have two young adult nieces who tell me they have never encountered this, and they’ve been out with plenty of young men their age. They’re both sensible young women, and haven’t gotten themselves in over their heads. But the scenario I described doesn’t even seem to exist anymore! As a matter of fact, when I was describing it to them, I could just hear them thinking to themselves, “Oh, how quaint, Auntie Odile!”

I have to agree with you: Unless one is in a position to get married in the relatively near future, it seems silly, time-wasting, and a drain of emotional energy to start the courting process. Young people are really better off sticking to co-ed group activities in the meantime as they complete their studies and launch their careers.

To the OP: If you are starting to seek out a suitable wife, check first that you’ve got the other accoutrements of adulthood on a reasonable trajectory (i.e., finished your education, have a decent job, living as a responsible adult, either in your parents’ home or on your own.) If you’ve done those things already, fine. Start thinking of what a suitable person would be like, and use good Catholic values when you’re discerning that. Then start your quest, all the time putting the issue in God’s hands.

Personally, I like the idea of a weekday lunch when you’re starting to get to know somebody. It’s time limited and not open ended, you both have to get back to work, and you’re not left with the idea of kicking it up to an emotional level that you’re not prepared to handle in the heat of the moment.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

@ Julianne–Does actual dating even exist anymore?

You know what I mean. The man calls the woman several days in advance and asks her to go with him to a planned event–dinner and a movie, some sort of performance, etc, etc. At the time of the date, he arrives at her residence in a functioning motor vehicle which is not covered with dog hair or auto parts on the interior, walks to her door, rings the bell, and then escorts her to the vehicle. They go to the planned event. They may or may not split the tab for it. Then he returns her to her residence and says good night at the door and leaves after ensuring she is safely inside her house.

I have two young adult nieces who tell me they have never encountered this, and they’ve been out with plenty of young men their age. They’re both sensible young women, and haven’t gotten themselves in over their heads. But the scenario I described doesn’t even seem to exist anymore! As a matter of fact, when I was describing it to them, I could just hear them thinking to themselves, “Oh, how quaint, Auntie Odile!”

I have to agree with you: Unless one is in a position to get married in the relatively near future, it seems silly, time-wasting, and a drain of emotional energy to start the courting process. Young people are really better off sticking to co-ed group activities in the meantime as they complete their studies and launch their careers.

To the OP: If you are starting to seek out a suitable wife, check first that you’ve got the other accoutrements of adulthood on a reasonable trajectory (i.e., finished your education, have a decent job, living as a responsible adult, either in your parents’ home or on your own.) If you’ve done those things already, fine. Start thinking of what a suitable person would be like, and use good Catholic values when you’re discerning that. Then start your quest, all the time putting the issue in God’s hands.

Personally, I like the idea of a weekday lunch when you’re starting to get to know somebody. It’s time limited and not open ended, you both have to get back to work, and you’re not left with the idea of kicking it up to an emotional level that you’re not prepared to handle in the heat of the moment.

You know, probably it doesn’t. Unless it’s a high school prom, which seems to still have a solid structure built-in - Boy buys girl flowers, takes girl out to dinner, escorts to dance, then home (hopefully).

A lot of “hanging out” is done these days - hours and hours of unstructured time together. Never a good idea when hormones are raging…

I think your recommendation of a weekday lunch date is perfect for people who are already working…I’d actually keep things at that level for a while. For students in college, that can be hard to coordinate unless you happen to be on a similar schedule. But most college students don’t have time to date anyway.

Personally, I think we delay marriage far too long now. People are reaching their peak fertility and leaving it long behind before even starting to look for a mate. Everyone goes to college, even if they aren’t well suited for it, and those would be prime years to be employed and starting a family. Our bodies don’t wait for us to get finished with all of this education, they just keep on their schedule…And most women stay on ABC for years and years and then wonder why they can’t get pregnant when it’s finally time, even up to age 40!



Well, that is a side bar to the OP’s question so I will stop now.

 

[bodema]

How far is too far? One easy way to get an idea of how far is too far is…dont do anything with her in private that you wouldnt want your parents to watch. And remember, God is watching 24/7 too.

 

[Equites_Christi]

How far is too far? One easy way to get an idea of how far is too far is…dont do anything with her in private that you wouldnt want your parents to watch.

An oft-repeated and well-intentioned idea, but I don’t think it’s entirely accurate. My girlfriend and I wouldn’t chastely kiss in front of her or my parents. Or really any immediate company. But kissing is permitted.

And remember, God is watching 24/7 too.

This is a better idea

 

[Debora123]

Hi everyone this is my first post… I’ve read alot on here but I’m still new to Catholicism so I’m bound to put my foot in it at some point

Anyway on with the question… I’m sure we’ve all heard the how far is too far question but I want to flip that on its head and ask how far is too far romantically because obviously when you date someone you get emotionally attached to them so I guess what I’m really asking is how can I best protect a womans heart if I date her?

How can I do whats best for her emotionally and guard her heart from harm so as not to lead her away from god but to show her love in a Christian way?

(oh and just for the record I have no intention to do anything even remotely sexual with a girlfriend after all why would you want to lead someone you say you love away from god for YOUR “best” intrests surely if you loved her you’d do everything you could to help her know god and be close to him… Even if that’s at your expense)

-thanks for your time everyone

When my husband and I were still dating, our rule was this:

Holding hands, hugging, cuddling, and kissing is OK.

Anything that starts to involve the sexual/private parts is off limits.

God Bless!

 

[Kelfa28]

You know what I mean. The man calls the woman several days in advance and asks her to go with him to a planned event–dinner and a movie, some sort of performance, etc, etc. At the time of the date, he arrives at her residence in a functioning motor vehicle which is not covered with dog hair or auto parts on the interior, walks to her door, rings the bell, and then escorts her to the vehicle. They go to the planned event. They may or may not split the tab for it. Then he returns her to her residence and says good night at the door and leaves after ensuring she is safely inside her house.

This post made me giggle…my husband borrowed his mother’s really old and sketchy looking van for our first date. to give you an idea of how old it was…his grandfather bought it used years ago…and there were still tools all over the floor of it.

I raised my eyebrows when I saw it and we ended up taking my car instead.

In his defense…he had sold his car prior to his deployment in Iraq and had just gotten home after being away for a year when we met.

I still dated him and we did get married and we just bought a house. He still tells me I’m lucky he had that van and he didn’t blow the money he made on a new car…because we wouldn’t have the house.
He said…“I was aware of my own brilliance…I’m sorry no one else is!”

 

[Englishguy1988]

Well I’m 23 and to be honest I would only consider dating someone if I thought there was a very strong possibility that marriage could work between us… Hence why I’ve been single almost 11 months!

By off colour I assume you mean swearing? If so no problem there I was brought up with good manners not just not swearing but also always say please and thank you etc and holding doors is just good manners then again I’ll also give a girl my coat if she’s cold or to sit on if the bench is wet so yeah I’m pretty old fashioned

Just a question and I’m probably going to come across a little naive here but isn’t that how you date

…a decent job… Well sort of I plan on training as an electrician and starting up my own company so I’m working on saving to do that but yes I can look after myself I’ve been able to iron since I was 14! And I’m the oldest of 4 boys so when my youngest brother was born when I was 18 I used to take it in turns with mum to cook or look after him so thanks to my parents I’m pretty well rounded and able to look after myself

to be honest I think I probably would want to wait at least a couple of years before getting engaged then another year before married so 3-4 years before I’m married as obviously I want my company up and running and able to support a family preferably before marriage

For me I just think how would I want a guy to treat my daughter and that’s the standard I try to stick by but I agree with remembering gods’ watching you but I think if your thinking of her as somebodys little girl (and whatever her age is she is still someones’ little girl) then I think you’ll be alot more respectful and and show her affection in a tender loving way rather than a sexual kinda way if that makes sense?

 

[JRKH]

Sounds to me like you are pretty solid and would be a “Good catch” for some young lady…

Peace
James

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Well I’m 23 and to be honest I would only consider dating someone if I thought there was a very strong possibility that marriage could work between us… Hence why I’ve been single almost 11 months!

By off colour I assume you mean swearing? If so no problem there I was brought up with good manners not just not swearing but also always say please and thank you etc and holding doors is just good manners then again I’ll also give a girl my coat if she’s cold or to sit on if the bench is wet so yeah I’m pretty old fashioned

Just a question and I’m probably going to come across a little naive here but isn’t that how you date

…a decent job… Well sort of I plan on training as an electrician and starting up my own company so I’m working on saving to do that but yes I can look after myself I’ve been able to iron since I was 14! And I’m the oldest of 4 boys so when my youngest brother was born when I was 18 I used to take it in turns with mum to cook or look after him so thanks to my parents I’m pretty well rounded and able to look after myself

to be honest I think I probably would want to wait at least a couple of years before getting engaged then another year before married so 3-4 years before I’m married as obviously I want my company up and running and able to support a family preferably before marriage

For me I just think how would I want a guy to treat my daughter and that’s the standard I try to stick by but I agree with remembering gods’ watching you but I think if your thinking of her as somebodys little girl (and whatever her age is she is still someones’ little girl) then I think you’ll be alot more respectful and and show her affection in a tender loving way rather than a sexual kinda way if that makes sense?

You sound really lovely and ypu will make one woman very happy. I hope my daughter will marry a man like you.

I don’t have advice to give, it has all been discussed.You know what you want and your values are solid. Just be honest and treat women with respect. When you click with someone you will know. It’s simple really.

 

[Englishguy1988]

Thank you for the advice everyone… Its brought a few more questions up for me (like always lol) so I’m going to see if they have been posted on CAF anywhere first but I just wanted to thank everyone for their contribution

 

[chevalier]

I would suggest that you make sure you have things to talk about, things to do, that doing the boy-and-girl things doesn’t happen as a result of boredom or not having anything else to do. Also picking public places to meet with strangers looking at you has the effect of helping you think more soberly. On the other hand, going alone, just the two of you, to places with dim lights, low humming/nasal tone music (which has a stronger effect on women than on men), can artificially make the atmosphere between you more mushy. Probably the same happens when you go dancing to a modern club, where dancing is always at least a little suggestive and there’s a lot of body contacts, sometimes the hands on curves contact, which is perhaps not immediately sexual but is certainly sensual and probably creates some chemical bonding, while also perhaps being more sexual in a broader sense than most people would be able or willing to notice (let alone potentially leading to other, more advanced things if one lets his guard down, falls to a momentary temptation, finds an excuse etc.). Especially if you’re a romantic, even a night of waltzing could get some ideas in your head.

On the other hand, you can talk about interesting things, arrange to do things together, be active together, do things that are beneficial to others, or to you, generally look to get to know each other and grow as friends as opposed to creating atmosphere to trigger or speed up the romantic bonding.

Perhaps also try to avoid lingering, like you can’t end a conversation, can’t put down the phone, can’t put things off until tomorrow or next week, to avoid a kind of unilateral or mutual neediness. Keep yourself guarded from that. If you do, you’ll also help her do the same.

I’d also be careful with prolonged physical displays of affection. This may be a little bit difficult with a girl but then girls can sometimes be rather emotional or affectionate with their friends too, so it isn’t always necessarily the sign of something more sensual in nature if a hug takes a longer while.