How important is morality in the big picture?

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McKevin

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God gave his son for our sins and calls us to a life of good works (feeding, clothing, helping the poor). Shouldn’t we spend more time building his kingdom and less time wrestling with morals?

I’m asking this because I see a “night and day” difference in the focus of my childhood holiness church & the focus of my Catholic parish. They concentrated on holy living but didn’t do very much work, the parish I’m in now does a lot of good works but doesn’t stress holy living. It’s as if wrestling over morality takes a lot of time and energy and that time and energy can be put to better uses.

In the big picture, considering God created us as imperfect creatures and made a sacrifice for our sins, should we all spend more time living our faith by doing good & less time questioning our faith and the faith of others over their moral struggles?
 
McKevin said:
In the big picture, considering God created us as imperfect creatures and made a sacrifice for our sins, should we all spend more time living our faith by doing good & less time questioning our faith and the faith of others over their moral struggles?
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One can’t “live one’s faith” and be immoral.

It is immoral to not try to correct others when they are being immoral.

One can’t “live one’s faith” while not trying to correct the immorality of others.

Morality is simply “correct living”, and is the very definition of “living our faith”.
 
CatsAndDogs said:
One can’t “live one’s faith” and be immoral.

It is immoral to not try to correct others when they are being immoral.

One can’t “live one’s faith” while not trying to correct the immorality of others.

Morality is simply “correct living”, and is the very definition of “living our faith”.
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Many people live their faith despite their immoral behaviors, from King David in the Old Testament all the way ahead to this familiar face I see in the mirror each night before I go to bed.

It’s risking judgemental and self righteousness behavior to point out and correct the immorality in others…even Jesus didnt comr to judge or condemn others so what gives any person on earth the right to do so? read John 3:17
 
McKevin said:
Many people live their faith despite their immoral behaviors, from King David in the Old Testament all the way ahead to this familiar face I see in the mirror each night before I go to bed.

It’s risking judgemental and self righteousness behavior to point out and correct the immorality in others…even Jesus didnt comr to judge or condemn others so what gives any person on earth the right to do so? read John 3:17
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Pointing out and correcting is different than judging and comdeming.
 
I like what someone ascribed to St Francis as saying:
“Preach the Gospel. If necessary, use words.”
 
How important is morality in the big picture? Its EVERYTHING. Maybe I misinterpreted the original post, but it sounds like the OP is separating it from the Catholic faith. If this is true, it could be likened to living without breathing. The two are inseparable. Take a look at the lives of saints and tell me one that did not live morally at the time of their death. Morality is what builds God’s kingdom.
 
wynnejj said:
I like what someone ascribed to St Francis as saying:
“Preach the Gospel. If necessary, use words.”
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I totally agree with this. Just think of how much more peace we would have if everyone practiced the faith with this kind of respect to each others weeknesses.
 
UndertheRadar said:
How important is morality in the big picture? Its EVERYTHING. Maybe I misinterpreted the original post, but it sounds like the OP is separating it from the Catholic faith. If this is true, it could be likened to living without breathing. The two are inseparable. Take a look at the lives of saints and tell me one that did not live morally at the time of their death. Morality is what builds God’s kingdom.
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Hum. Interesting, am I separating it from the Catholic faith? Not at all, doesn’t our amount of morals depend on our level of maturity and the place and time of our journey? As you said the saints found good morals by the time of their deaths but think of how tragic it would have been if they gave up on their faith because of their struggles…and if good morals are everything then wouldn’t they have to get that straightened out before they could begin their good works? Oh and also I would contend that good works does more to build Gods kingdom, while someone with extremely good morals can unintentionally destroy God’s kingdom…
 
McKevin said:
Many people live their faith despite their immoral behaviors, from King David in the Old Testament all the way ahead to this familiar face I see in the mirror each night before I go to bed.
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So, who was it that pointed out to King David that King David was being a sinner by that “wife of someone else” incident? 🙂
It’s risking judgemental and self righteousness behavior to point out and correct the immorality in others…even Jesus didnt comr to judge or condemn others so what gives any person on earth the right to do so? read John 3:17
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We are to point out evil behavior (sin) when it occurs, so that is less likely to happen again, but we are not to CONDEMN PEOPLE (assign them to hell) for their sinning.

This “don’t even mention the evil in the world!” attitude of some “Christians” is truly amazing! 🙂
 
CatsAndDogs said:
So, who was it that pointed out to King David that King David was being a sinner by that “wife of someone else” incident? 🙂

We are to point out evil behavior (sin) when it occurs, so that is less likely to happen again, but we are not to CONDEMN PEOPLE (assign them to hell) for their sinning.

This “don’t even mention the evil in the world!” attitude of some “Christians” is truly amazing! 🙂
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Some of it may have to do with worrying and fighting so much about your moral faults that you don’t put that energy into doing Christ’s work…for some people that are so concerned and fight morality battles within themselves, there is no drive or time to do other things, for the perceive that if they struggle with some moral teachings, they need to get that fixed first before they do other things.
 
Mckevin asks:" In the big picture, considering God created us as imperfect creatures and made a sacrifice for our sins, should we all spend more time living our faith by doing good & less time questioning our faith and the faith of others over their moral struggles?" I guess you have to make up your own mind. If you think doing good deeds is more important that examining your conscience, perhaps you could call that practice your good deed. It is how we prepare for the Sacrament of Confession. Then God can have His peace with your poor soul. Good deeds are great but if in the doing of them you forget to take care of your own stuff, how good is that? Balance.

Take a good look at yourself and go to Confession. Sinners sin. When it gets raucus then the police get to do their good deeds by stopping them! Works for me!

Peace,

Gail
 
McKevin said:
Many people live their faith despite their immoral behaviors, from King David in the Old Testament all the way ahead to this familiar face I see in the mirror each night before I go to bed.

It’s risking judgemental and self righteousness behavior to point out and correct the immorality in others…even Jesus didnt comr to judge or condemn others so what gives any person on earth the right to do so? read John 3:17
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Well, you could do both, be moral and do good things. For example, if you do some work helping the poor, while you’re at it, don’t kill them or steal from them. Then you’ve killed two birds with one stone 1) good works 2) stay moral
 
ForwardProgress said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
This “don’t even mention the evil in the world!” attitude of some “Christians” is truly amazing!

Some of it may have to do with worrying and fighting so much about your moral faults that you don’t put that energy into doing Christ’s work…for some people that are so concerned and fight morality battles within themselves, there is no drive or time to do other things, for the perceive that if they struggle with some moral teachings, they need to get that fixed first before they do other things.
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“Analysis Paralysis”, which I am HIGHLY prone to by the way, is a huge problem with many people, indeed.

But this “addictive disease” (paralysis of action due to “uncertainly”) doesn’t separate two things that are in fact inseparable, those being “improving personal morals (their own and others)” and “acting on DOGMATIC morals (those specified by the Church)”.
 
Immorality, or sin, effects our ability to accomplish these good works you speak of. It is not possible, if we fully understand our faith, to live in a persistent state of sin and not have it permeate our whole being, thus corrupting everything else we do.

Is it possible for unrepentant sinners to do some good works? Certainly. We need only look to our media to witness that. There are Hollywood celebrities who appear to be doing these so called good works while living lives that many find morally offensive. Yet, these good works are not extraordinary by any means nor do they represent the call to the Christian. We, as God’s children, are expected to do MORE than just what our basic human nature compels of us. We are called to a much higher standard, by God, and when compliant, are granted graces that allow us to achieve extraordinary works - the kind that may get us into heaven.

There are “works” that rate with men and those that matter to God. For Christians, it is not an “either/or” proposition.

We can not underestimate the damage that immorality does to our souls. It continually lowers the bar of conscience, duty, responsibility, and obligation. Allowing sin to take up residence and get comfortable in our daily lives is like allowing a cancer to metastasize. You may not see it or feel it, but it will spread.
 
McKevin said:
How do you decide to point it out as being wrong without first deciding (or judging) that it is not right?
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Actually, that’s a pretty good question. 👍

The correct word here, methinks, is “discern” rather than “judge”, which in practice means applying God’s ways and laws to our own moral situations; this is the focus of Moral Theology, of which yours truly is a Master’s Degree student. (sorry, don’t mean to toot my own horn, but I find the study of Moral Theology riviting).

Having a pretty good idea from a properly formed catechesis, we can discern what’s right and wrong; easy in some cases like murder of an innocent and very difficult in others, like many end-of-life situations.

Not to mention that correcting should be done is as non-judgmental manner as possible.
 
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