How is is possible for Satan to sin in Heaven?

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Ben_Sinner

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I have been wondering this.

Satan used to be good at one point and then he turned bad. Heaven exists outside of time though, so how could he have changed his mind (which is something that is done via time)?

and why aren’t we able to sin, but he was?
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I have been wondering this.

Satan used to be good at one point and then he turned bad. Heaven exists outside of time though, so how could he have changed his mind (which is something that is done via time)?

and why aren’t we able to sin, but he was?
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Do you mean this? Luke 10:18: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I have been wondering this.

Satan used to be good at one point and then he turned bad. Heaven exists outside of time though, so how could he have changed his mind (which is something that is done via time)?

and why aren’t we able to sin, but he was?
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I have heard that angels have knowledge, and when they sin, it is a permanent change, unlike humans which can be gradual. His sin was probably instant and permanent.

As to, “…and why aren’t we able to sin, but he was?” wasn’t clear to me. I didn’t understand the question.
 
Satan was created good, but from the very moment he exercised free will he chose against God. He never had the beatific vision of God, never was “in” heaven.
 
Wesrock said:
Satan was created good, but from the very moment he exercised free will he chose against God. He never had the beatific vision of God, never was “in” heaven.
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Luke 10:18: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
 
Actually, this does answer the question of the opening post, which seems to be how can we imagine that Satan sinned while in heaven --namely, that Satan was created good but chose against God before he had the beatific vision. This does provide a way this could be imagined as having happened.
Tim_D said:
How do you know this? Where does it come from?
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STT said:
Luke 10:18: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
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Jesus is referring to the success of his missionaries against demons.

Either way, Satan was created good, in glory, and powerful, and threw it all away. He never had the beatific vision of God, though.
 
Wesrock said:
Jesus is referring to the success of his missionaries against demons.

Either way, Satan was created good, in glory, and powerful, and threw it all away. He never had the beatific vision of God, though.
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Could a person go to Heaven without beatific vision? Why Satan excluded from having beatific vision so He could happily live with God in Heaven?
 
I’m confused.

Were the angels created after the universe? I always assumed they were created before God created the universe, thus, the angels (including Lucifer) were outside of time, thus there would be no “time” where they could turn from good to bad. They either were eternally bad or good from the start.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I’m confused.

Were the angels created after the universe? I always assumed they were created before God created the universe, thus, the angels (including Lucifer) were outside of time, thus there would be no “time” where they could turn from good to bad. They either were eternally bad or good from the start.
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You are correct with your observation. That is the problem with all timeless beings, they cannot decide.
 
While they had not yet received sanctifying grace they could choose wrong. Since the fall, no being in heaven can choose wrong.

Fr. Ripperger’s YouTube series mentions what happened before the fall. Lucifer was told that a human Woman would receive more graces than all the angels and people ever had and ever will. Apparently that was more than he could take.
 
I have heard that at the instant of their creation they were tested, then satan fell immediately.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I have been wondering this.

Satan used to be good at one point and then he turned bad. Heaven exists outside of time though, so how could he have changed his mind (which is something that is done via time)?
Click to expand...
Only God has Immutability.

The Devil, or Satan is subject to creation.
 
STT said:
Do you mean that there is nothing about fall of Angels in the Scripture?
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Very little, actually. Believe it or not, much of what we take to be “gospel” about Satan and the fall of the rebel angels actually comes from Islam.
 
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