How Long Have I Been Married?

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Mokey

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In my diocese, they recognize marriages that have hit a milestone anniversary date (20, 25, 30, etc.) at Mass one Sunday each year in the couples home parish.

My wife and I have been married for almost 21 years. We were married by a justice of the peace because of a prior marriage (non-Christian marriage) on my wife’s part. Seven months ago, the Church finally granted my wife an annulment (after trying for 20 years with 5 priests and 3 dioceses – and my wife had a slam dunk case that the Church dropped the ball on) and we went through the convalidation process and now our marriage is recognized by the Church.

My question is this. How long have my wife and I been married in terms of participating in my diocese’s recognition Sunday? As far as I am concerned, we have been married almost 21 years and when we hit our 25th anniversary we plan on signing up to be recognized as such. I know that many of you are hard liners and would say that my wife and I have only been married seven months. I’ve decided to create this poll to see what you think.
 
I will reply since I am one of those “hard-liners.” Legally you have been married for 20 years and 7 months. However, sacramentally you have only been married 7 months. This isn’t a matter of technicalities. Sacraments, which bestow grace, are the heart and soul of our faith. The Church does not recognize what was joined by man, but by God. Without the grace bestowed by God Himself, there was no sacrament. Therefore, there is only one correct answer.

Sorry it isn’t what you want to hear. Congradulations on your sacramental marriage. May you be greatly blessed by it. 🙂
 
My argument would be thus: The Church assumes marriage is valid until proven otherwise. Your wife was divorced previously and you were married by a Justice of the Peace. In this case, you were granted an annulment by the Church. This means that, for all intents and purposes, your wife’s first marriage never occured. So basically the question you asked is the same as saying: We were married 21 years ago by a Justice of the Peace, but the marriage was convalidated by the Church just seven months ago, how long have we been married? I think it would be obvious to anyone that you’ve been married 21 years. I voted for that.
 
The problem with that argument is that the Church has never recognized marriages by justices of the peace. If he had been married in another church, your argument would make sense (though I do not know if it would be valid, it might be.)

I question why it took so long for an annulment if the original marriage was not a Christian marriage, since civil marriages are NEVER recognized.
 
I’ve changed my mind on the question three times while trying to reply.

I vote: Both.
 
gomer tree:
I’ve changed my mind on the question three times while trying to reply.

I vote: Both.
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I agree with gomer tree. It would be incorrect to ignore the 20 years that you spent trying to get the annulment and living faithfully with one another.

There is baptism by desire, maybe there can also be marriage by desire ???

Don’t slam me please. I just think that the intent in this individual case was honest and holy. (not advocating living in sin, etc)

Congratulations on the marriage!
 
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familyof8:
I question why it took so long for an annulment if the original marriage was not a Christian marriage, since civil marriages are NEVER recognized.
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This is not true. Civil Marriages by Catholics who did not get the permission of their ordinary are not valid under certain circumstances, but usually they are, and would require an anullment, especially if both parties are baptized Christian.
 
Since the original poster stated that it was not a Christian marriage, I assume it would fall into this category:
4) Informal cases (prior bond and defect of form). Annulments are given in other less complicated cases where it is not necessary to go to trial. For instance, if it is discovered that a man was validly married to someone else before he married the petitioner, but lied to his wife, the second marriage will be nullified on the grounds of ligamen, which is Latin for a “prior bond.” These cases are settled rather quickly in an administrative process which involves little more than documentary evidence.

The same type of administrative process is used when Catholics marry outside the Church. This is called a declaration of nullity based on a “defect of form.” The couple did not exchange vows before a priest and two witnesses in a Catholic church as is required by canon law. When Catholics fail to observe this law, the marriage is invalid. These “defect of form” cases account for more than half of all the annulments granted in the Catholic Church
 
gomer tree:
I’ve changed my mind on the question three times while trying to reply.

I vote: Both.
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I like this answer! Mokey, I am in a very similar situation, and I say, God knows your heart and intentions, and I believe He does not want you to ignore the total experience of your lives together, and that the purpose of the anniversary Mass is not to prove anything, but celebrate your fidelity to one another.

We’ve been married without any divorces without any prior marriages to others and we are both cradle Catholics. 22 years ago, justice of the peace, then 2 years ago, finally in the Catholic church! If I had to submit a formal document for the church I would put both dates down, because I’m happy about our fidelity to each other, and we have children as a result, and I’m ecstatic that we finally have a sacramental marriage.
 
I voted for 20years and 7 months. This is my second marriage. My wife were married in the methodist church in 1979. In 1992 we both went through the annulment process and were remarried in the catholic church. Every year our Toledo diocese has a special day for couples married 20, 25 30 years, etc. I’m hoping they will recognize our original date of 1979, and I believe they will.
 
I think you have been married for 20 years and 7 months. I am not a canon lawyer, but I’ve read some. Here is what Lawrence G Wrenn has to say in The Invalid Marriage:
[T]he chapter heading dealing with convalidation is entitled “On the Convalidation of *Marriage * - De Matrimonii Convalidatione”, because what is convalidated must always be a marriage. It can never be anything less than an existing marriage. Concubinage, for example, cannot be convalidated. And neither can a nonexisting or null marriage, at least if the word “null” is used in its proper and accurate sense.
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If you were under the Church’s authority when you attempted marriage before a justice of the peace, that marriage was invalid because it did not follow the proper form (marriage within the Church [not in the sense of within a church building, of course]).

It makes no difference that, in the succeeding 20 years, you were faithful to one another and brought up a fine famiy, and it makes no difference that you may have been under the impression that you really were married.

If you were not under the Church’s authority when you appeared before the justice of the peace–that is, if neither of you was a Catholic–then your violation of form would not be an issue because the Church’s regulations do not control the marriage of non-Catholics to one another.
 
Karl,

Just curious-

When is someone “under the Church’s authority”?
How does that apply to fallen away Catholics? What about a baptized-Catholic who joins a protestant church? Or a baptized-Catholic who doesn’t believe in Christ or attend mass?
At what point if any is someone no longer under the Church’s authority?
 
My husband and I have been married legally for 4 years. We went through the anullment process after our civil ceremony and received our anullments 2 1/2 years later. I put the convalidation on hold for personal reasons. We finally had our marriage convalidated in April. Let me tell you something about how I feel. Although I always loved my husband deep down inside, there is something special and different about our marriage now that it has been convalidated. We have been blessed by God.😃
 
I think it all depends on what “convalidation” means. If it means to create a marriage where none exists, then you have been married the shorter times. If it means that the previous marriage is now recognized, then your entire marriage has been converted to a sacramental one. I don’t know the answer but I believe it would not be unlike our church to recognize the intrinsic good of your relationship and take your entire marriage and bless it. This is especially true in your case because the annulment, once granted, means that the previous marriage never existed. Therefore there was no impediment to your sacramental marriage other than timing.
 
The important thing Mokey is to make sure you remember BOTH anniversaries 😃 !
 
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