How many people wouldn’t be alive today if abortion were illegal?

[WillPhillips]

I tried looking up stats online but didn’t find much. My question is, how many people wouldn’t be here today, if not for abortion?

For example, both my sisters now have large, happy families. And both had abortions when they were younger. None of my amazing nieces and nephews would be alive today if not for what happened. People always seem to reference the “unborn”, but what about the “born in their place”? Isn’t there technically billions of ‘potential‘ people who are unborn for whatever reason? So is the “unborn genocide” essentially a substitution of other “born people”?

 

[WillPhillips]

Also, looking back though my lineage, it appears I would not be here if not for my grandmother’s abortion (which I only recently learned about). Given the percentages of women who have abortions (~25%), wouldn’t that mean most of us living today would not be here if prior abortions had not occurred?

 

[Ilkka]

I don’t know what Church teaching concerning this topic is but I’m under strong conviction that if there is a case where either:

A) BOTH the mother and the baby would die or

B) the mother survives at the expense of the baby’s life,

it wouldn’t be a sin to abort in the latter scenario. Or maybe it would be a sin but the moral culpability is greatly reduced due to the nature of it.

That being said, stats on something like that are very hard to make because we would have to assume who would survive and who wouldn’t.

 

[WillPhillips]

we would have to assume who would survive and who wouldn’t.

No, we wouldn’t, not for my question. I’m asking about looking to the past. Whose ancestors had abortions, and hence how many of us are here because “others” were not born in our place.

 

[Ilkka]

I had to go back and read your original post. I’m a little baffled now.

 

[WillPhillips]

Well I appreciate the response. I’m asking about how many people would not be here, if not for prior abortions.

 

[PetraG]

Estimates say that (obviously) there is no way to know conclusively, but in the US essentially the fertility of whites didn’t go down much with the advent of legalized abortion but the fertility of blacks dropped by much more. Legalization also cut the fertility of unmarried women more and lowered the likelihood of survival of firstborn/first-conceived more than later born.

Public funding of abortion has been connected reducing the fertility of blacks, particularly for higher-order births (i.e., women contemplating their second or subsequent birth). Changes in public funding of abortion had significant but smaller effects, lowering the overall fertility of whites.

In other words, legalizing and providing public funding for abortions results in fewer overall births over the lifetime of women. Fewer people, not more.

So no, it is not true that women who have abortions have more children in the long run or that there are more of “us” here were conceived and born because some others of us were not allowed to be born. Nope, the data seem to say that the overall effect is fewer of us in total.

Even if there would be more, though, it isn’t ethical to sacrifice some people in order to raise overall conception rates. (No, no, no…that’s dystopian thinking, even in a secular sense.)

 

[WillPhillips]

Nope, the data seem to say that the overall effect is fewer of us in total.

I appreciate the response but you don’t cite any sources at all. I’m not sure that’s true (the population boom would make it hard to even make that claim, right?)

Also, I’m not asking anything about overall effect. I’m just asking what percentage of people living today, wouldn’t be here (I know I, and my nieces/nephews wouldn’t).

 

[stpurl]

Now wait. Your grandmother had an abortion, and you think that means that if she hadn’t, YOU wouldn’t be here?

I don’t get that.

Let’s say Mary is a young woman. Mary gets pregnant and for some reason doesn’t want to have the baby.

Choices are two: Abortion or have the baby/adoption.

Mary chooses abortion. Then later when she is ready, Mary has two more children, one of them ‘you’.

Does Mary’s choice of abortion ensure that ‘you’ get born, and had she not aborted, "you’ would not be here?

No.

Had Mary not aborted, she could have raised the child OR given the child in adoption.

And then afterward, Mary could have had more children, ‘you’ among them.

The abortion doesn’t guarantee your existence in the slightest, it appears to me.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And both had abortions when they were younger. None of my amazing nieces and nephews would be alive today if not for what happened.

I don’t get it. Unless your sisters met their future spouses at the abortion clinic, there is no correlation between them having abortions when young and them having families when older.

It’s not like having an unplanned, unwanted child at age 20 somehow prevents a woman from having a planned, wanted child later on.

 

[PetraG]

I appreciate the response but you don’t cite any sources at all. I’m not sure that’s true (the population boom would make it hard to even make that claim, right?)

Here’s one: U.S. Abortion Policy and Fertility | RAND

Also, I’m not asking anything about overall effect. I’m just asking what percentage of people living today, wouldn’t be here (I know I, and my nieces/nephews wouldn’t).

I think you’re talking about alternative streams of reality. The answer is: We can’t know, and it doesn’t matter. Bemoaning the loss of the good that can come in spite of a bad decision is a pretty poor way to judge moral law, after all, right?

I mean, some of us wouldn’t be here and others would if the Colts had won Super Bowl XLIV instead of the Saints. What of it?

 

[Pattylt]

The only thing that changes is that the “first born” child is actually the second child in the mothers life.

I was adopted at three days old. I was on only child. A year ago, I found out my parents later married and had four more children…so am I the oldest of five or an only child? The answer is yes…I’m both. Had my mother aborted me (it was illegal in 1952), my birth parents would have still married and had four children. The difference is I wouldn’t have been born nor my children and grandchildren. It only seems to effect the aborted not the future children birthed.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

That’s correct. A woman who aborts a baby and then has three more later on did not somehow “replace” the aborted baby, or make the moral wrong of killing it go away because she made three more babies.

 

[Nepperhan]

You know, before 1973 there still was a high incidence of abortion. I’m not sure we should make our primary concentration whether it is illegal or not.

 

[PetraG]

That’s correct. A woman who aborts a baby and then has three more later on did not somehow “replace” the aborted baby, or make the moral wrong of killing it go away because she made three more babies.

Exactly. And if she and any who helped her to procure the abortion repent and are absolved, she wouldn’t be required to try to have a “replacement” baby as a way to “make amends.” No, that next baby would have his or her value in their own right, quite apart from whether their older siblings survived or not.

 

[PetraG]

You know, before 1973 there still was a high incidence of abortion. I’m not sure we should make our primary concentration whether it is illegal or not.

The case of Chile shows how true this is. It takes more than forbidding abortion or punishing it to protect the unborn, especially when their parents are not married to each other.

 

[WillPhillips]

Now wait. Your grandmother had an abortion, and you think that means that if she hadn’t, YOU wouldn’t be here?

Yes, and I should have clarified. In her case, had she not gone though with the abortion she would have married the father (as she tells it), who was also quite abusive. She would have never met my grandfather…had my parents etc. Similar cases for my sisters, who would’ve had completely different families with different men.

 

[WillPhillips]

I mean, some of us wouldn’t be here and others would if the Colts had won Super Bowl XLIV instead of the Saints. What of it?

Yes, I guess I’d agree with that. I’m still thinking though my thoughts on this. And you’re probably right, there’s really no way to really make a good estimate. The population today is the cumulative result of all past events (abortion included). Had abortion been illegal, there would be a completely different population alive today.

 

[stpurl]

Ah. But even so, and even in the times of our grandmothers (mine were born in the 19th century) marriage to the father did not necessarily mean that one STAYED with the father. Or that ‘meeting another man’ and then going on to have children with him might not have happened.

Of course, the thing with these ‘what-if’ scenarios (especially popular with fans of Frank Herbert et al.) is, is that they are ultimately a moot point. What happened, happened.

And one cannot as I noted speculate that had any particular event (abortion or otherwise) NOT occurred, then ‘one would not be here’ without allowing for literally billions of 'what-if’s. Seriously, if your grandmother had not had the abortion she might have (as many did) go off to a relative, have the baby in relative secrecy, put the child up for adoption, and go back on with life. Or she might have married the abusive father and HE might have had an epiphany and turned out to be a real great guy after all. Or the child might have grown up to be a hitman for Al Capone, or else an American Cardinal.
Or if there had not been an abortion, your grandmother might have been bitten by a snake, caught typhus, developed septicemia, been knocked down by a carriage, etc. etc.

Finally, and here is a headscratcher, unless you are a very young person indeed, since abortion in the US was not LEGAL until 1973 (although some states had it legal in the late 1960s), your grandmother in having an abortion DID have said abortion illegally, so arguing that you’re alive because abortion is legal seems kind of off.

Above all, how many would be alive today if abortion were illegal is a far greater question, and one we can actually measure, as we know how many abortions have been legally carried out either in medical/quasi medical offices as well as through prescription drugs. In the US that number in the last nearly 50 years is what, some 60 million people.

All those people were DIRECTLY killed because abortion is legal. That’s a different kettle of fish from arguing that if Granny had had to ‘have the baby’ back in the day, that there were ‘lots of people’ alive NOW who wouldn’t be. Since Granny did have the abortion there’s at least ONE person now who is NOT alive, isn’t there?

 

[Crocus]

In her case, had she not gone though with the abortion she would have married the father (as she tells it), who was also quite abusive.

I am sorry your grandmother found herself in that situation. Partner abuse seems to be a common reason even today that leads vulnerable women to seek abortion as a solution.

Perhaps as a society we can work more on identifying and treating the underlying causes of domestic abuse.

Praying for your grandmother and any, and all, of our ancestors who may have sought abortion as a solution to personal problems.