How many will be saved?

[Sirach2]

You can go to mass and witness for yourself its full of self serving people. Thunderous applause,extra ordianry Eucharistic ministers every single mass, folks throwing out the orans posture having NO idea what it is or why they do it, alter girls, no alter rails.Confused EOEM just try taking communion on the tongue instead of in your hand seems to throw them for a loop…etc.

:bigyikes: If I was naivé, I might think you were joking, but sad to say, I think you are serious.
Yup … EMHC’s, altar girls, and people WHO GO TO MASS and raise their hands prayerfully in orans posture are going to hell, especially the ones who take communion in their hands! No doubt about it. I’m so glad you enlightened us!

 

[paul_c]

:bigyikes: If I was naivé, I might think you were joking, but sad to say, I think you are serious.
Yup … EMHC’s, altar girls, and people WHO GO TO MASS and raise their hands prayerfully in orans posture are going to hell, especially the ones who take communion in their hands! No doubt about it. I’m so glad you enlightened us!

Sirach2,
You clearly seem to feel that more people will get to heaven than Zosimus, and that’s fine and perhaps he might be a little over zealous against the post vatican II mass, but he’s right that even among the 25% that still go to mass, there are sinners. But at least they are trying to live out their faith. But you see, that’s the point. The percentage of people who will die in the state of grace is very worrisome. There will always be a remnant but it may not be a majority and it seems very doubtful that it is Most people.

 

[Zosimus41]

:bigyikes: If I was naivé, I might think you were joking, but sad to say, I think you are serious.
Yup … EMHC’s, altar girls, and people WHO GO TO MASS and raise their hands prayerfully in orans posture are going to hell, especially the ones who take communion in their hands! No doubt about it. I’m so glad you enlightened us!

papalencyclicals.net/JP02/JP2inaest.htm

The lay are “**extraordinary **Eucharistic ministers” extraordinary because they are not supposed to be the norm. Maybe I have enlightened you.

Is any amount of disobedience or say sin any less than any other? Theres only two groups. (venial/mortal sins)

Is it fair to lead people astray with misguided but good intentions?

You used words I did not when quoting me “especially the ones who take communion in their hands!”

Thats leftist tactics. Lets keep it on the level shall we?

Do you understand the things I mentioned are in addition to the prescribed mass?
Do you also understand you are not to add nor subtract from the prescribed mass?

Inaestimabile Donum

The faithful have a right to a true Liturgy, which means the Liturgy desired and laid down by the Church, which has in fact indicated where adaptations may be made as called for by pastoral requirements in different places or by different groups of people. Undue experimentation, changes and creativity bewilder the faithful. The use of unauthorized texts means a loss of the necessary connection between the lex orandi and the lex credendi. The Second Vatican Council’s admonition in this regard must be remembered: “No person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove or change anything in the Liturgy on his own authority.”[8] **And Paul VI of venerable memory stated that: “Anyone who takes advantage of the reform to indulge in arbitrary experiments is wasting energy and offending the ecclesial sense.”**9]

So I guess this is one document you would choose to ignore. Or maybe your saying its okay to ignore because its not going to send you to hell?

What is your point any way?

 

[Zosimus41]

Sirach2,
You clearly seem to feel that more people will get to heaven than Zosimus, and that’s fine and perhaps he might be a little over zealous against the post vatican II mass, but he’s right that even among the 25% that still go to mass, there are sinners. But at least they are trying to live out their faith. But you see, that’s the point. The percentage of people who will die in the state of grace is very worrisome. There will always be a remnant but it may not be a majority and it seems very doubtful that it is Most people.

Paul,

Peace of Christ be with you.

I was over zealous. Thank you for pointing that out. My apologies.

Dont get me wrong I do love the ordinary mass its just the abuses and ignorance that goes with it in a lot of parishes that drives me up the wall.

I switch between the Latin and Ordinary mostly because I miss the Blood of Christ thats not offered in our Latin mass.

 

[Sirach2]

You used words I did not when quoting me “especially the ones who take communion in their hands!”

Thats leftist tactics. Lets keep it on the level shall we?

I did not direct quote you, but ad-libbed using the general thrust of your posted words. In fact, this is a repeat of your angst here that will probably no doubt fall on deaf ears if I try to point out that all of your antipathy is against lawful practices of our Church.
You cant even go to a mass these days with out seeing alter girls, extra ordinary Eucharistic Ministers for every mass, female readers, holding hands, people throwing up the orans posture, raising their hands up etc…

These things are not Roman Catholic.
While you accuse me of leftist tactics, and misrepresent lawful permissions of our Church with accusations that these are not Roman Catholic, do you really think we can have an open and cordial discussion hereafter? I except the practice that some have adopted with raising their hands as being lawful. It is a neutral matter that has not received an official statement one way or another from the Bishops. OTOH, female altar servers, EMHC’s, female lectors are all lawfully permitted to serve. Surely, you’ve read many of these threads here at CAF.

That’s all I care to respond to at this time.

 

[steve_b]

I see that I worded it incompletely. What I meant to say was that St. Paul had a number of converts living among gentiles and pagans, having barely been converted from that lifestyle. It would be so easy for them to revert back, so he kept vigilance over them, and even told them to disassociate themselves from brothers who indulged in pagan practices. Some of us today would not fall under such a strict ban from associating with sinners, but in those days, it was necessary. They were brand new baby converts amidst a pagan society.

Look how many people today, who should know better, and probably do, are acting just like those Paul is writing against in his day. Not any difference. There’s nothing new under the sun.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Departed from topic and closed.