How much did the devil know?

[Eagle1937]

“Satan is the god of this world. I will argue that Satan knew full well who Jesus Christ was and his purpose.”

And Satan knew Jesus Christ was coming! I will need to reveiw the Old Testament…

 

[ynotzap]

Over the years, I have asked and asked to receive a sign from God that I may know him, but to this day…absolutely nothing…?? I even asked when I was a young child for God to come into my heart, since I went to catholic school and heard alot of others talk about God and the feelings they experienced, I could not understand, as I did not ever feel anything, and to this day, still have not.

Its definitely not a matter of desire, I have a very strong desire to know God, but when he consistently does not answer, it tends to make one wonder what is true and what is not.

God told us about angels, because they are in heaven with him and serve a ‘Godly’ purpose, I can understand why God did not inform us of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe…it would not really matter, as those beings are just more of Gods creations, nothing more, nothing less, but since they are reported to have the ability to come here, it is clear they are much more advanced than we are, so IMO, this suggests they have been around a bit longer than we have, and really, that is possible, with God anything is possible.

We know for a fact our God is one who loves to create, so I dont think its much of a stretch to think he was creating other planets with life (but different than ours) long before he created us. If one was to suggest earth was the ONLY planet where God created life, plus knowing God is one who loves to create…what did God do for the billions upon billions of years of his existence prior to us being created? It is hard to imagine God just ‘sat around’ doing nothing, and having NO creations to look upon. That is almost silly to suggest!

If you look at mankind from a different perspective, we are progressing slowly with technology, but eventually, likely in the next 100-200 years, we will have the ability to travel far into space, and probably visit other planets, so in that case…WE could be the aliens, if that planet had life that was lower on the technology totem pole. Travel to other planets and even other systems is just a matter of having the technology, given enough years and decades, mankind, or any other beings created out there, will gain technology making it possible for them to do such things.

I believe the bible does ‘hint’ at other life out there…I have heard one verse where God speaks of his ‘other flocks’ he must tend to.

I am convinced that God will give you a sign of His personal love for you. He does call the time and place. His heart is always open to us, so its not Him who is the obstacle to our request. There may be some spiritual block. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you this block. It may be some sin you are attach to. It may be a lack of sincerity It may be a lack of humility You may already know what this block is. You may trust in your judgement too much. I say this prayer and I offer it to you.

Holy Father, Creator, I acknowledge my total dependence You, You love me through no merit of my own because You are Love itself. I thank you for sending your Son, Jesus Christ to bring me back to you and redeem me from the works of Satan. I am sorry for all my offenses. In the Name of Jesus I ask you Father to release your Spirit in me. Inflame my soul with Faith, Hope and Love and all the virtues. Grant me your holy joy and the peace that the world can not give. Heal me in body and soul. Expel all that is anti-Christ within me glorify Jesus in me and glorify your Kingdom here on earth. I worship You in union with Mary, the Angels and Saints now and forever. This works for me, and I confident it will work for you. He who believe little will receive little, he who expects much will receive much. God bless you in His Son Jesus.

 

[fred_conty]

Eagle, you mentioned,
"The devil knew Jesus was God” - It is ok to think this. But, when I read the New Testament, Jesus and God were ONE. Jesus was the son of God. Not the same as “Jesus is God“. However, because Jesus and God were so close, Jesus might as well be God for most people - and this is OK.​

Jesus is the second person in the holy Trinity, and the Son of the first person in the holy Trinity the Father, which makes the Son equal to the Father and therefore Jesus is God.

Some people do not believe Jesus is God, but say that he is a little less than God, and I believe JW’s and Arians say this. But this is not so, he truely is God, as surely as the Father is God.

So Catholics believe in three divine distinct persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, but one God. This of course is a great mystery which God has revealed to us.

Therefore we say the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but there is only one God.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[Eagle1937]

“that he is a little less than God”

Jesus was equal to god. But, not “Jesus is God”.

So far, I have not seen anything in the Gospels where Jesus says, “I AM God”. Jesus always refers to God as his Father. Or,“the one who sent me”. Of course, Jesus never said, “I AM Man” either. He did say, “Son of Man”…

Jesus was sent by God. God did not become man. God above touched the earth thru Jesus Christ the Man. And shed his divine Blood on the cross for you and I. And all who would believe in him.

“Jesus is God” - because they were so close in spirit, might as well be for most people. That is ok.

In any case, we are splitting hairs in this area. Is Jesus God? The Heavenly god who came down to earth in the flesh? 100 percent? I say no. God of Heaven above saw thru Jesus Christ’s eyes as the Man. And God worked with and thru Jesus - Healings to the Feeding of the Five Thousand.

1
When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you,
2
just as you gave him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him.
3
Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
4
I glorified you on earth by accomplishing the work that you gave me to do.
5
Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXP.HTM

 

[petra22]

I am convinced that God will give you a sign of His personal love for you. He does call the time and place. His heart is always open to us, so its not Him who is the obstacle to our request. There may be some spiritual block. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you this block. It may be some sin you are attach to. It may be a lack of sincerity It may be a lack of humility You may already know what this block is. You may trust in your judgement too much. I say this prayer and I offer it to you.

Holy Father, Creator, I acknowledge my total dependence You, You love me through no merit of my own because You are Love itself. I thank you for sending your Son, Jesus Christ to bring me back to you and redeem me from the works of Satan. I am sorry for all my offenses. In the Name of Jesus I ask you Father to release your Spirit in me. Inflame my soul with Faith, Hope and Love and all the virtues. Grant me your holy joy and the peace that the world can not give. Heal me in body and soul. Expel all that is anti-Christ within me glorify Jesus in me and glorify your Kingdom here on earth. I worship You in union with Mary, the Angels and Saints now and forever. This works for me, and I confident it will work for you. He who believe little will receive little, he who expects much will receive much. God bless you in His Son Jesus.

I said this prayer for Mikekle, too! May the spirit fill you with love and truth.

 

[Oren]

“that he is a little less than God”

Jesus was equal to god. But, not “Jesus is God”.

So far, I have not seen anything in the Gospels where Jesus says, “I AM God”. Jesus always refers to God as his Father. Or,“the one who sent me”. Of course, Jesus never said, “I AM Man” either. He did say, “Son of Man”…

Jesus was sent by God. God did not become man. God above touched the earth thru Jesus Christ the Man. And shed his divine Blood on the cross for you and I. And all who would believe in him.

“Jesus is God” - because they were so close in spirit, might as well be for most people. That is ok.

In any case, we are splitting hairs in this area. Is Jesus God? The Heavenly god who came down to earth in the flesh? 100 percent? I say no. God of Heaven above saw thru Jesus Christ’s eyes as the Man. And God worked with and thru Jesus - Healings to the Feeding of the Five Thousand.

1
When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you,
2
just as you gave him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him.
3
Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
4
I glorified you on earth by accomplishing the work that you gave me to do.
5
Now glorify me, Father, with you, with the glory that I had with you before the world began.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXP.HTM

What??? Jesus is God. Hypostatic union people.

 

[Eagle1937]

“Hypostatic union” - No I am not.

I have seen people use this as evidence of “Jesus is God”.

24
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

Jesus is not saying he is god. Must remember the context of that verse. Jesus was arguing with the Pharisees. The ruling elite of Israel of the time. And Jesus Christ was putting himself as equal to Yahweh. A material national god. A god very important to the Pharisees.

First, Jesus says, “…and the Father who sent me.”

And then says, “I AM”.

And says again later, “But the one who sent me is true, and what I heard from him I tell the world”

Is Jesus Christ contradicting himself? If “Jesus is God”? Of course not. Read on.

John Chapter 8.

13
So the Pharisees said to him, "You testify on your own behalf, so your testimony cannot be verified.
14
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I do testify on my own behalf, my testimony can be verified, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I come from or where I am going.
15
You judge by appearances, but I do not judge anyone.
16
And even if I should judge, my judgment is valid, because I am not alone, but it is I and the Father who sent me.
17
Even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men can be verified.
18
I testify on my behalf and so does the Father who sent me.”
19
So they said to him, “Where is your father?” Jesus answered, "You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.

Jesus tells them and the world who they really are…

23
He said to them, "You belong to what is below, I belong to what is above. You belong to this world, but I do not belong to this world.

Jesus says, “I AM”. He is the one that was prophesied and predicted for thousands years beforehand. Caused a stir among the ruling elite of Israel at the time. Hence, “I AM”.

24
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

[24,28] I AM: an expression that late Jewish tradition understood as Yahweh’s own self-designation ( Isaiah 43:10); see the note on John 4:26. Jesus is here placed on a par with Yahweh.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

“Yahweh was the national god of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel and Judah”

Jesus condemns the Pharisees…

26
I have much to say about you in condemnation. But the one who sent me is true, and what I heard from him I tell the world.

John Chapter 8.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXG.HTM

Jesus and God are one. Jesus is the son of God. Son of Mary. Jesus knew god and god knew him. Chapter 17 - The Prayer of Jesus - Jesus prays to the Father or the God of Heaven above…Before his final phase of his mission.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXP.HTM

More of John Chapter 8. Very powerful. Shows the struggle with the ruling elite of Israel. And this is only one example. There are more examples through out the Gospel.

37
I know that you are descendants of Abraham. But you are trying to kill me, because my word has no room among you.
38
I tell you what I have seen in the Father’s presence; then do what you have heard from the Father."
39
They answered and said to him, “Our father is Abraham.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works of Abraham.
40
But now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God; Abraham did not do this.
41
You are doing the works of your father!” (So) they said to him, “We are not illegitimate. We have one Father, God.”
42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and am here; I did not come on my own, but he sent me.
43
Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot bear to hear my word.
44
You belong to your father the devil and you willingly carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
45
But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me.
46
Can any of you charge me with sin? If I am telling the truth, why do you not believe me?
47
Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not listen, because you do not belong to God.”
48
The Jews answered and said to him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and are possessed?”
49
Jesus answered, “I am not possessed; I honor my Father, but you dishonor me.
50
I do not seek my own glory; there is one who seeks it and he is the one who judges.
51
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever keeps my word will never see death.”

Not only Jesus had trouble with the ruling elite, but also with many hundreds of people. Maybe thousands. Jesus condemns whole towns because they did not repent or change their ways…And did not accept him. Weeps over Jerusalem…

But, of course, many Jews did believe. And non-Jews.

 

[Oren]

Why does you say you are a traditional catholic? Jesus is God.

 

[Eagle1937]

“Why does you say you are a traditional catholic”

Because I was Baptized and Confirmed in a Traditional way? Roman Catholic…

Maybe I should re-edit to “Practical Bible Reading Catholic”…

Or, “Practical Gospel Reading Catholic”.

I read the New Testament of Jesus Christ as it is. The Gospels - Mathew, Mark, Luke, John.

Jesus Christ says he was sent by God. And his Father - God - is in Heaven. Jesus Christ and God are one. Not “Jesus is God”.

“but it is I and the Father who sent me”

“But the one who sent me is true, and what I heard from him I tell the world”

“for I came from God and am here; I did not come on my own, but he sent me”

 

[Oren]

In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word WAS GOD. The Word is Jesus Christ. Jesus is True God and True Man. That is Catholic teaching. Saying you are a traditional catholic is incorrect.

From Catholic Answers: “The divinity of Christ is an essential teaching of the Catholic faith. Indeed, any community of faith that would deny Christ’s deity ceases to be Christian at all.”

catholic.com/magazine/articles/jesus-is-god

 

[Eagle1937]

“The Word is Jesus Christ” - That is incorrect. Wrong. John is talking about the Written word. God wrote the Bible thru human beings or chosen ones. Dynamically and creatively.

John 1:1

1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Only talking about the message of Jesus Christ. Old Testament predictions.

“The prologue states the main themes of the gospel: life, light, truth, the world, testimony, and the preexistence of Jesus Christ, the incarnate Logos, who reveals God the Father.”

“In the beginning: also the first words of the Old Testament (Genesis 1:1). Was: this verb is used three times with different meanings in this verse: existence, relationship, and predication. The Word (Greek logos): this term combines God’s dynamic, creative word (Genesis), personified preexistent Wisdom as the instrument of God’s creative activity (Proverbs), and the ultimate intelligibility of reality (Hellenistic philosophy).”

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PX9.HTM

This verse. Read carefully!

14
And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.

“Word became flesh” - all the predictions came to be as written centuries before.

“Father’s only Son” - Jesus Christ and God are one. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Son of Mary. Not “Jesus is God”.

The first verse taken in context with the rest of the passage. Read carefully!

1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
He was in the beginning with God.
3
All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
4
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
5
the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
6
A man named John was sent from God.
7
He came for testimony, to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him.
8
He was not the light, but came to testify to the light.
9
The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
10
He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him.
11
He came to what was his own, but his own people did not accept him.
12
But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,
13
who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God.
14
And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.
15
John testified to him and cried out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’”
16
From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace,
17
because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

 

[Oren]

I have read it. I provided you with an article and I suggest you read that. Jesus is true God and true man.

St. Thomas the Apostle, upon seeing Jesus said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’

JESUS IS GOD.

 

[Eagle1937]

“St. Thomas the Apostle, upon seeing Jesus said to Him, 'My Lord and my God”

For St. Thomas and you, Jesus just might as well be God.

Jesus Christ and God are ONE. But! because they were so close in spirit, that might as well be God for the 90 percent out there. 99 percent who believe in Jesus as You and I do…

It is this “Jesus Christ and God are ONE” Truth that is too hard to understand. I understand. But in no way that this is less than “Jesus is God”…

Therefore, It is easier to say, “Jesus is God”…

Splitting hairs.

Take this verse.

18
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

God’s only Son. And God has revealed him.

“who is at the Father’s side” - Kind of problematic. But, God and the Father are at par…”at his side"

God the Father and Jesus Christ is his only Son. And God has revealed him to the world.

 

[Eagle1937]

Some Logic. I hope it helps. And forgive me for going off topic. But, this is important too.

God is Omnipotent. Everywhere.

With Jesus Christ, God is still omnipotent and still in Heaven. Hence, Jesus Christ and God are ONE.

“Jesus is God” - This now implies God came down from Heaven, became Jesus Christ. And no longer in Heaven and no longer omnipotent.

John Chapter 17.God the Father. Jesus Christ is praying to God above.

1
When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you,
2
just as you gave him authority over all people, so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him.
3
Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ and God are ONE. Better, stronger, more powerful than “Jesus is God”.

21
so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
22
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one
23
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
24
Father, they are your gift to me. I wish that where I am they also may be with me, that they may see my glory that you gave me, because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
25
Righteous Father, the world also does not know you, but I know you, and they know that you sent me.
26
I made known to them your name and I will make it known, that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in them.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXP.HTM

Done. I will say no more on this. Very clear: Jesus Christ and God are ONE.