How Much Information About Sexual History?

[Pug]

I would prefer more info to less. What if they had sex with your brother 6 months ago…the supporters of saying nothing don’t mean to conceal that? I would want to know this info before marriage.

Also, I would want to know the presence of any homosexual experiences or tendencies. I’m not sure having them answer, “no, there were none,” is sufficient because that could really mean, “no, there were none that were significant.” Woah! What they and what I deem significant are two different things.

If you leave it up to them, they may not share that they masturbate 2 times a day, every day, because they are kidding themselves about just what kind of a disaster that could be for marriage. No, dear, you are not going to give that up overnight, sorry to disillusion you…the marriage is off.

However, a certain level of detail is too much!

 

[peterpiper]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Pug I hear what you are saying, and unfortunately symantics could certainly come into play that leave things much too ambiguous in order to discern the info properly. Lying by omission is a much too accepted practice in our society these days.

For example: What if hypothetically I had been a prostitute (which I was not, but this is an extreme example) many years ago and never told her this prior to marriage. There could be siginifcant emotional/spiritual damage from this type of activity (or even from lots of promiscuity) that I would think it necessary to address before entering into the sacrament of marriage. If this type of info was withheld from my spouse there is no doubt it could come back to haunt our marriage many years down the road. Other less dramatic, and perhaps more realistic instances, could have a similar effect most certainly.

Obviously given the Grace of God people can heal and can become completely different people. That being said it does not seem was to naively assume this is the case and pretend these types of issues could not possible exist. To me personally honesty is the absolute crux of any relationship, especially the marriage relationship…so why be willing to compromise this when it comes to the most important relationship of my life (beside my relationship with God)?

If Love is meant to be truly compassionate, understanding, and to know no bounds then it seems that honesty in marriage is an absolute imperative.

Thanks again for all of your thoughts and anything else any might have to add.

Peter

 

[Seatuck]

I think a past homosexual relationship should be disclosed.

 

[fix]

Pug:

I would prefer more info to less. What if they had sex with your brother 6 months ago…

I think the point is we are assuming the two people entering into marriage are mature, faithful, obedient, intend to live a chaste life and have renounced all prior sexual transgressions.

If one is having illicit relations 6 months before marriage, one would think such persons are not prepared for marriage.

I cannot find much good in reliving past sins. They should be confessed. No one, not even a spouse, is entitled to such information relayed in the confessional and I see no reason any good would come of it.

If there are specfic medical reasons to inform one’s spouse, then I would agree such items need to be discussed, but a general “tell all” will not help.

 

[wabrams]

Seatuck:

This is not true. Most men do not show symptoms of Chlamydia but they can have it and transfer it to their wives and cause infertility.

Rarely does it not show any symptoms, and the test isn’t a simple blood test, either. The rest of them you only know you’ve got them unless you have a physical symptom, like herpes, gonnerhea, syphillis, HPV, etc.

 

[crobynb]

This is my opinion. I am a little biased since my husband and I have only been with each other. But had we not I would have wanted to know.

When entering a marriage honesty and trust are the number one things that help you maintain a marriage (along with love and respect). Having said that, how can you build on your marriage with a foundation of having not told the truth? Omission is still a lie in my book. You are purposely withholding information that may affect another persons decision to wed or not.

I do not think you have to give the gory details, but it is necessary to disclose your pasts so you can move on to the future. It may sting or hurt, but if your love is really true you can work through it and forgive. Previous sexual encounters should be discussed before marriage. For health and emotional reasons.

Ignorance may be bliss - if I look fat in my pants, but not if my spouse was living a different life prior to me that undermines the “character” he has created for himself now.

 

[LSK]

OhioBob:

Peter, repeat after me: “There is no such thing as clothes that make a woman look fat. All women look thin, beautiful and marvelous no matter what they are wearing.”

Learn that well, grasshopper. It will pay dividends later in life.

Trust me, this is 20 years of marital bliss talking.

Listen to him, Peter…this is a very wise man.

As to the original question - I agree that there may be some reasons for letting someone in on previous sexual relationships. If you, Peter, are supporting a child from a previous relationship or if you have an STD that could affect her health or the health of your future children then of course she needs to be made aware of that so that she can decide if she wishes to continue the relationship with you or not. You would, of course, be entitled to know the same information about her. I would think, however, that there is a safe and healthy environment in which young Catholic men and women can divulge such information - didn’t someone mention Engagement Encounter?

 

[wabrams]

crobynb:

Ignorance may be bliss - if I look fat in my pants, but not if my spouse was living a different life prior to me that undermines the “character” he has created for himself now.

Sounds almost cynical, like the saying “people never change.”

 

[David_Zampino]

wabrams:

Slightly off topic, but it probably should read get tested for AIDS and confess to your confessor. It may sound trivial, but I can’t tell you how many discussions this has brought up between my fiance and I because I have a sordid past and she doesn’t. You can only get tested for AIDS; all other STD’s you only find out about if there is a physical symptom. There is a huge misconception about this.

Actually, you can be tested for syphillis. The blood test is a state requirement prior to obtaining a marriage license in Oklahoma.

 

[BillP]

wabrams:

…You can only get tested for AIDS; all other STD’s you only find out about if there is a physical symptom. There is a huge misconception about this.

This is inaccurate. One can be tested for:

Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
HIV
Syphilis
Herpes
Human Papilloma Virus

 

[LSK]

peterpiper:

Thanks for all the feedback.

Pug I hear what you are saying, and unfortunately symantics could certainly come into play that leave things much too ambiguous in order to discern the info properly. Lying by omission is a much too accepted practice in our society these days.

For example: What if hypothetically I had been a prostitute (which I was not, but this is an extreme example) many years ago and never told her this prior to marriage. There could be siginifcant emotional/spiritual damage from this type of activity (or even from lots of promiscuity) that I would think it necessary to address before entering into the sacrament of marriage. If this type of info was withheld from my spouse there is no doubt it could come back to haunt our marriage many years down the road. Other less dramatic, and perhaps more realistic instances, could have a similar effect most certainly.

Obviously given the Grace of God people can heal and can become completely different people. That being said it does not seem was to naively assume this is the case and pretend these types of issues could not possible exist. To me personally honesty is the absolute crux of any relationship, especially the marriage relationship…so why be willing to compromise this when it comes to the most important relationship of my life (beside my relationship with God)?

If Love is meant to be truly compassionate, understanding, and to know no bounds then it seems that honesty in marriage is an absolute imperative.

Thanks again for all of your thoughts and anything else any might have to add.

Peter

I need to add this - Peter, from your posts you seem to be a very sincere, loving and Christ-centered man who wants to enter in the Sacrament of Marriage with your whole heart and your whole soul.

I think you are a gem.

:clapping:

 

[Fashina86]

OhioBob:

Peter, repeat after me: “There is no such thing as clothes that make a woman look fat. All women look thin, beautiful and marvelous no matter what they are wearing.”

Learn that well, grasshopper. It will pay dividends later in life.

Trust me, this is 20 years of marital bliss talking.

remeber that! (hehehe)

and I agree also with everybody saying that it depends ont eh relationship as well as the ability to forgive… but also a lot of this does belong first in the confessional…

and as crobnyb said

This is my opinion. I am a little biased since my husband and I have only been with each other. But had we not I would have wanted to know.

When entering a marriage honesty and trust are the number one things that help you maintain a marriage (along with love and respect). Having said that, how can you build on your marriage with a foundation of having not told the truth? Omission is still a lie in my book. You are purposely withholding information that may affect another persons decision to wed or not.

I do not think you have to give the gory details, but it is necessary to disclose your pasts so you can move on to the future. It may sting or hurt, but if your love is really true you can work through it and forgive. Previous sexual encounters should be discussed before marriage. For health and emotional reasons.

Ignorance may be bliss - if I look fat in my pants, but not if my spouse was living a different life prior to me that undermines the “character” he has created for himself now.

it is important to be able to talk and understand/forgive each other before marrige… I hope that helps
Laura

 

[Pug]

fix:

I think the point is we are assuming the two people entering into marriage are mature, faithful, obedient, intend to live a chaste life and have renounced all prior sexual transgressions.

That seems such an unlikely thing to freely grant about a hypothetical potential spouse in today’s world.

 

[Seatuck]

wabrams:

Rarely does it not show any symptoms, and the test isn’t a simple blood test, either. The rest of them you only know you’ve got them unless you have a physical symptom, like herpes, gonnerhea, syphillis, HPV, etc.

From looking on the internet is see that as high as 88% of men do not show symptoms of clamydia. Clamydia can be tested for with a swab or from urine.

 

[Princess_Abby]

I think intentionally withholding sexual history when it could very well influence the actual decision to marry a person can potentially invalidate a marriage.

I know someone who petitioned for an annulment based on the fact that his wife had previously been with dozens of men, so much so that she had lost track. He knew she wasn’t a virgin but didn’t know the truest extent of her past. In marriage, the reality came out and she was shocked at his reaction because she felt like she had been honest–she wasn’t a virgin, she never claimed to be, etc. However, he felt like this demonstrated a lack of understanding regarding fidelity in marriage if sex was treated so utterly casually outside of it. He felt like she should have gone beyond just saying she had had “several” partners. (Granted, she was sexually abused as a child and it had a lot to probably do with her promiscuity.)

Anyway, I believe that investigation is still on-going and a decision hasn’t been made. The wife is devastated but the husband is equally devastated that he was not fully aware of his wife’s history before marriage and now questions if he entered into marriage with all the necessary information to fully consent.

I think full honesty is important. No one needs to know the graphic details, but I think partners of any sexual nature need to be disclosed and experience discussed. I think that whatever God has forgiven in the sacrament of confession is certainly worthy of human forgiveness too, but that does not negate the need to know information that will effect health, well-being and spousal sexuality.

 

[pira114]

Honesty is great, but in reality, most people either don’t want it, or to quote Jack Nicholson, “can’t handle the truth!”

My wife and I knew that we were not virgins, but we did not discuss any details. We waited about two years (not on purpose) and then talked in detail about it. What we both learned is that prior to marriage, or early in it, we probably would not have handled the info very well. Not that we had sordid pasts, but when you are just about to get married, it’s a young, sweet love and needs to grow some more before it weathers a storm like that. Say what you want, but some people, women especially, have a hard time dealing with these things. I don’t think it’s not being honest with each other to hold these things back for a while. Let yourselves grow together a little first.

Now, if it’s something really bad, you might want to talk about it. But if it’s the “normal” sex life, let it wait. You can easily talk about it and mutually decide to wait or not. However, that conversation might lead to detail anyway.

My suggestion is no matter what you decide to do, remember that if a question is asked, one must be prepared for an answer. Not just the answer they were hoping for. You both have to let go of any ego prior to learning info like this. Not easy to do.

 

[crobynb]

wabrams:

Sounds almost cynical, like the saying “people never change.”

I mean no disrespect, so please do not think so - but your comment ruffled my feathers a bit.

I do not feel that my view on that is cynical. I believe people can change and I have seen it done.

But . . . if a person who has an active sexual past changes their lifestyle and lives chastely - that does not undo the past. It is still there, only the present and hopefully future has changed. If a person is dishonest and conceals that past because of shame, embarrassment, or new found self-righteousness then they have not really changed. How many former alcoholics pretend they never were one?? Most say "I was an alcoholic, I am a recovering alcoholic, I used to be but am not anymore . . . " They usually are not proud of what their past was but are willing to acknowledge it to attest to their personal growth.

There is not a second virginity to be had. So, concealing the past or misconstruing the facts is not an honest accounting of who you are and what made you be the person you are today. Most people are willing to deal with the truth, even when it stings. Lies are never easier to deal with than honesty.

 

[crobynb]

pira114:

Honesty is great, but in reality, most people either don’t want it, or to quote Jack Nicholson, “can’t handle the truth!”

My wife and I knew that we were not virgins, but we did not discuss any details. We waited about two years (not on purpose) and then talked in detail about it. What we both learned is that prior to marriage, or early in it, we probably would not have handled the info very well. Not that we had sordid pasts, but when you are just about to get married, it’s a young, sweet love and needs to grow some more before it weathers a storm like that. Say what you want, but some people, women especially, have a hard time dealing with these things. I don’t think it’s not being honest with each other to hold these things back for a while. Let yourselves grow together a little first.

Now, if it’s something really bad, you might want to talk about it. But if it’s the “normal” sex life, let it wait. You can easily talk about it and mutually decide to wait or not. However, that conversation might lead to detail anyway.

Pira -

I respectfully disagree with you. Once I converted to the Catholic faith I learned that sex outside of marriage cannot be categorized in the " ‘normal’ sex life" department. It is not normal sex. It is fornication - a sin against God. So there is not really an appropriate way to decide what is normal or really bad.

Any sexual encounters/past behavior should be discussed prior to marriage. I am glad that waiting to discuss this worked for you and your wife but in general I think this is more of a hindrance than help. If the “young, sweet love” cannot handle the previous partner talk before marriage then you probably are not ready to get married in the first place. Marriage has enough storms to weather without adding something as important as this to the “wait till we are mature enough to deal with this” list.

 

[wacky_wonderful]

I’ve been with 2 men in my life and I was married to both of them. If I were to get married again, I’d want to know exactly how active my beloved had been before meeting me. I know a woman who was quite free with herself in her youth. She then became a believer (not Catholic) and years later came down with HPV (a precursor to cancer) and she was frantic. She did receive treatment and I assume she is now ok. I know this will not sound very nice, but I am not used merchandise and I don’t want to marry someone who has been on and off the grocery store shelf multiple times. I’d still love him, but I don’t think I’d feel comfortable marrying him. My body is not an amusement park, I don’t wear a sign that says “free admission” and I want a man who values his body that way too. Really, it’s the only thing of value that I have to offer. No 401-K, no assets of any kind. Just me.

 

[marty1818]

I’d say there is no need to bring it up. If it has been confessed you have been forgiven. Why bring up past relationships or relations. To do so will probably do more harm than good.

God Bless,
Matt