How Serious Is Divorce?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sadowa
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

sadowa

Guest
Dear Group,

A while back I was discussing the dilemna of seeing somone younger, a young woman who I still see.I am single never divorced.

I receieved at least one if not two “be open to older Catholic women who are divorced at you parish.” Furthermore, there was an implied the divorce would probably not be the woman’s fault if she were attending a parish.

Now tell me if I am wrong about the teaching against divorce. One thing, among a couple of others, pushing me towards women in their mid to upper twenties is a lot less divorce. Is getting an annulment routine? Should I date without reference to divorce? Thanks for help with an earlier answer. the prompt response made me decide to bring up this issue.

Sincerely,

Albert
 
Although prevalent in today’s society, divorce is very serious. It is a hard teaching. It should also be a major factor in your relationship decisions.

Malachi 2:15-16 “15 Has not the one God made and sustained for us the spirit of life? And what does he desire? Godly offspring. So take heed to yourselves, and** let none be faithless to the wife of his youth**. 16 "For I hate divorce, says the LORD the God of Israel, and covering one’s garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless.”

Matthew 9:8-11 "8 He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.” 10 The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” 11 But he said to them, "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given.

Likewise, the CCC teaches:

[2384](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2384.htm’)😉 *Divorce *is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.178 2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

cont…
 
It doesn’t get any easier as the CCC addresses it elsewhere and states:

[1650](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1650.htm’)😉 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil *divorce *and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery"160 the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.

It is indeed a hard teaching, particularly in the times we live today. My prayers are with you and all those that are divorced.

Peace,

MilesJesu
 
40.png
MilesJesu:
Although prevalent in today’s society, divorce is very serious. It is a hard teaching. It should also be a major factor in your relationship decisions.

Matthew 9:8-11 "8 He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.” 10 The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” 11 But he said to them, "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given.
Click to expand...
It is actually Mathew 19:8-11. I believe that the footnote for verse 11 (NAB) clarifies “Not all men can receive this saying, …” …this saying]: probably the disciples’ it is better not to marry (verse 10). Jesus agrees but says that celibacy is not for all but only for those whom it is granted by God. Verse 12 (and footnote) further puts into context “Whoever can accept this ought to accept it” (Matt: 19:12 abbr), which was more likely directed generally toward those who have never chosen to marry, as opposed to those who have been divorced by their spouses.

But yes, Jesus restored that God’s original will before Moses gave concession to those of hardness of heart was prohibition against divorce. Divorce is a very serious matter.
 
40.png
sadowa:
Should I date without reference to divorce?
Click to expand...
NO! A person who is divorced but who has not received a decree of nullity of the marriage is still presumed to be married and not eligible to marry or even to date. To date a such a person is seriously sinful. You want to start a relationship in better circumstances than that, right?

Betsy
 
Felra,

Thanks for the correction! I missed typed the 19! Good catch.

When you said:
I believe that the footnote
Click to expand...
for verse 11 (NAB) clarifies “Not all men can receive this saying, …” …this saying]: probably the disciples’ it is better not to marry (verse 10). Jesus agrees but says that celibacy is not for all but only for those whom it is granted by God. Verse 12 (and footnote) further puts into context “Whoever can accept this ought to accept it” (Matt: 19:12 abbr), which was more likely directed generally toward those who have never chosen to marry, as opposed to those who have been divorced by their spouses.

I think the “celibacy” aspect is not just limited to those who have never chosen to marry. It is very applicable to those who marry and then divorce! That is why it is such a hard teaching! Jesus says:

*"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery"160 *

Additonally, para 1650 of the CCC states: “If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law.”

Divorce is not only serious, but also a tragedy.

Peace,

MilesJesu
 
I am a bit perplexed why at least two forum members said seeking out the divorced Catholic women was preferable to dating someoen “too young”? I know what scripture says. Since we are not fundamentalists, what is the net effect of seeking and getting annullments. Perhaps that is how I should ahve directed the thread. It is obvious anullments are out there one of the Kennedys received one. So let me rephrase. The concept of a person being too young to marry in his or her mid to late twenties is just one of fashion and style. There is nothing biblical about marrying a single person of legal age. On the other hand how presumptious should one be about the ease of obtaining anullments? Sorry I didn’t focus the point down to this earlier.

sadowa
 
40.png
sadowa:
I am a bit perplexed why at least two forum members said seeking out the divorced Catholic women was preferable to dating someoen “too young”?
Click to expand...
Bad advice is the risk you run when asking for it on an internet forum where anyone can post an answer to you.

You should always approach information on the internet with healthy skepticism and ensure that you back up any advice with solid counsleing from your priest.
40.png
sadowa:
I know what scripture says. Since we are not fundamentalists, what is the net effect of seeking and getting annullments. Perhaps that is how I should ahve directed the thread. It is obvious anullments are out there one of the Kennedys received one. So let me rephrase.
Click to expand...
An annulment declares a Sacrament never took place in the first marriage, and that the person is free to marry in the Church. It does not give you any indication of whether or not that person would be a good spouse.
40.png
sadowa:
The concept of a person being too young to marry in his or her mid to late twenties is just one of fashion and style. There is nothing biblical about marrying a single person of legal age. On the other hand how presumptious should one be about the ease of obtaining anullments? Sorry I didn’t focus the point down to this earlier.

sadowa
Click to expand...
Date whomever you please. Why are you concerned about this anyway? If there are single young adults who are receptive to dating with the intent of marriage, then I don’t see a problem. If you meet someone who is divorced, but has an annulment, and you like that person there is nothing wrong with dating them either-- if you feel comfortable.

If you just prefer to avoid divorced people altogether, well that is your perogative.

I’m not understanding the issue here.
 
Hey Albert,

IMHO, if you are single, never married, the obvious choice would be a single, never married female. Even if it means ‘courting’ from a younger pool of females.

I can’t help but believe the statistics that show us a second marriage is significantly more likely to fail than the first. A divorcee has a proven track record, as well as a host of ‘baggage’.

I’ve been married for a long time, blessed by a wonderful wife who I would lay my life down for. If I ever found myself single, I would want to re-marry. Since I would be a widower (the only way I’ll be single), I would limit my field of females to Catholic singles and widows.

I realize this would significantly reduce my pool, but it’s what I feel I deserve. Wierd as it sounds, I would rather have a faithful Catholic single/widow who’s a drab, chubby wallflower, than a hot lookin’ divorcee, any day.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
There are a lot of very good divorced people—get to know the person. Don’t get so hung up on whether or not the person is divorced or not. You can’t always define someone by their past.
 
40.png
PiusXIII:
There are a lot of very good divorced people—get to know the person. Don’t get so hung up on whether or not the person is divorced or not. You can’t always define someone by their past.
Click to expand...
I agree. Some of the best people I know are divorced. And, you’re right. You can’t always define someone by their past.

It’s just that I would doubt a divorcee is likely to be good ‘marriage material’. Also, a divorcee is likely to be hurt, hardened and bitter. A divorcee is likely to be dis-trustful. A divorcee is simply more likely to leave. They tell me it’s even easier to leave the second marriage.

As a Catholic, married to a Catholic, in the Catholic Church means I’m in a Sacramental marriage. Oh, I know I can just get a divorce, if I wanted to. The tough part is I can’t ever re-marry. I don’t think I’d make a very good celibate person. For me, that’s a pretty good reason to ‘work it out’.

I’m sure there are exceptions, but I just don’t think the majority of divorcees have that belief. So again, I’m not saying divorcees aren’t good people, I just wouldn’t marry one, or recommend the single or widow(er) marry one, either. If that means marrying someone younger, or less slim, or less pretty, then so be it.
 
Cargopilot made some good points and distinguishes between getting a civil divorce and getting an annulment.

He said:
"As a Catholic, married to a Catholic, in the Catholic Church means I’m in a Sacramental marriage. Oh, I know I can just get a divorce, if I wanted to. The tough part is I can’t ever re-marry. I don’t think I’d make a very good celibate person. For me, that’s a pretty good reason to ‘work it out’.
Click to expand...
A civil divorce does not nullify the sacrament of a marriage. In the eyes of the Church and Scripture, a person civilly divorced may actually still be sacramentally married. That is where the issue arises. There are some people who are “divorced” who were never sacramentally married, and there are those who are “divorced” yet still sacrementally married.

Good Luck.

MilesJesu
 
A lot of that depends on you, for dating purposes. If a woman is merely civilly divorced, she is still sacramentally married without an annulment. Are you willing to risk your soul, not to mention your heart, if she doesn’t or can’t obtain an annulment?

To people who go through a divorce, it is VERY serious, and very, very painful. Despite complaints to the contrary, the annulment process is actually very healing to any Catholic party.
 
Is there any data on how often anullments are turned down in the USA. I imagine the status of minorr children would be significant?
sadowa
 
I did not mean to sound judgemental. I guess there are reasons people get divorced. They probably run the whole gambit of fault I was concerned about the sacraments. I ahve two criteria. I must be eligible for the sacraments, no woman’s beauty or charm will turn me away from that. Hence my last question about how frequent are anullments?

As an aside I date an unmarried mother once, the father of the child threatened my family by trying to kick down our door. He was known to carry a gun. Therefore, I do not enter situations with other people’s children. Come to think of it this type of threat happened to me when I was ignoring the rules on divored dating in my early twenties. I think things such as threats from ex-husbands provide earthly warning signs about divorce along with the spiritual ones from Church teaching.
sadowa
 
Albert,
About your question about annulments and how common they are… there are statistics that can be found on that topic. I know that the diocese I belong to has the lowest annulment rate in the US. We are a very conservative diocese (the way I like it) and as a point of interest… we are losing alot of our priests to the east and west coasts to bail them out of their problems caused by liberalism. Thank God someone is trying to straighten up the mess created by liberal seminaries!
 
40.png
cargopilot:
Hey Albert,… A divorcee has a proven track record, as well as a host of ‘baggage’…
Click to expand...
Hey now, that isn’t nice! Marriage is not a track record and children aren’t baggage.
~ Kathy ~
 
I was not saying marriage is a track record. Therer are soul altering prohibitions against entering into a marriage that was not properly annulled. I ahve found out some reasons for such annullments and some idea of how hard is it to get. Perhaps other respondants made it sound like a track record. I said the reasons for divorce “run a gambit of fault” . Meaning a woman blew it with her own adultery or crimminality, to she married some crimminal, lying jerk. With all the in between " we just grew apart" scenarios. Whatever the case there are still rules that effect the sacraments.

As to the reference to children. I was not speaking about my openess to having my own children. Furthermore, Ido not know how this conclusion was made as I clearly was speaking of two violent confrontations of fathers. Both with courts saying either you are divorced only come around on her terms, or you are a threat don’t come around at all. In both cases the fact of fatherhood seemed to empower each felon, because that is what I dealt with to try to keep" his woman and child" with the threat of harm to me or my family. Moreover, I taught for twelve years and witnessed these threats by parents and aggressive moves concerning children. I have seen the police remove a screaming parent in a custody battle more than once. I applaud those who can raise someone else’s kid. Two mortal threats are two too many. And yes I do see this as an inherent harm of divorced. Because for every case of divorce involving an igregious wrong, how many are involing we just couldn’t go on?

sadowa
 
40.png
Katie1723:
Hey now, that isn’t nice! Marriage is not a track record and children aren’t baggage.
~ Kathy ~
Click to expand...
Hi Kathy,

You’re right. That was a poor choice of words.

When I was writing ‘baggage’, I wasn’t thinking children, I was thinking ex-husband, emotional scarring, mis-trust and bitterness. When I was writing ‘track record’, I was thinking poor choice-maker, quitter, etc. I understand that there is abuse involved, but from my own experience with many friends who have divorced, that there was minimal to no abuse. They just ‘grew-apart’ or ‘fell out of love’. Lame excuses, to me.

As I said before, it is most likely that the only way I would become available is if I become a widower. I would probably want to marry again, and I would take a faithful Catholic single/widow, with or without kids, regardless of looks, body type, etc. over a hot divorcee babe, any day. I’ll let the divorced guys have all the divorced gals.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top