How should Colossians 2 be interpereted?

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I found this chapter to be very confusing. It seems to be denouncing all pleasure whatsoever.

1
For I want you to know how great a struggle I am having for you and for those in Laodicea 1 and all who have not seen me face to face,
2
that their hearts may be encouraged as they are brought together in love, to have all the richness of fully assured understanding, for the knowledge of the mystery of God, Christ,
3
in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4
2 I say this so that no one may deceive you by specious arguments.
5
For even if I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing as I observe your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
6
So, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him,
7
rooted in him and built upon him and established in the faith as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8
See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world 3 and not according to Christ.
9
For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity 4 bodily,
10
and you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power.
11
In him 5 you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ.
12
You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
13
And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions;
14
6 obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross;
15
despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it. 7
16
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17
These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.
18
Let no one disqualify you, delighting in self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, 9 inflated without reason by his fleshly mind,
19
and not holding closely to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and bonds, achieves the growth that comes from God.
20
**If you died with Christ to the elemental powers of the world, why do you submit to regulations as if you were still living in the world? **21
**“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!” **
22
**These are all things destined to perish with use; they accord with human precepts and teachings. **23
While they have a semblance of wisdom in rigor of devotion and self-abasement (and) severity to the body, they are of no value against gratification of the flesh.

I know that the Church teaches moderation, but this seems to be saying do away with the world altogether.
 
What?

"See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world and not according to Christ.

Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.

If you died with Christ to the elemental powers of the world, why do you submit to regulations as if you were still living in the world? ((What are these regulations? It’s what he was just talking about: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!” ))

These are all things destined to perish with use; they accord with human precepts and teachings. While they have a semblance of wisdom in rigor of devotion and self-abasement (and) severity to the body, they are of no value against gratification of the flesh.

This specifically is Paul talking about the Mosaic Law, but should we interpret this more modernly?

Most Evangelicals would say yes, that rules like abstaining from meat on Fridays, mandatory fasting during Lent, etc, that essentially Paul is speaking out against penance here. Catholics would say no, that Evangelicals are misinterpreting this and that he’s talking about something else.
 
So is this saying the opposite of what I thought?

This chapter is confusing me.
 
Have you checked New Advent?

newadvent.org/cathen/04131b.htm

Why written

"Colossians was written as a warning against certain false teachers, about whom St. Paul had probably heard from Epaphras, his “fellow-prisoner” and the founder of the Church of the Colossians.

The most diverse opinions have been held regarding these seducers.

They were called philosophers by Tertullian, Epicureans by St. Clement of Alexandria, Jews by Eichhorn, heathen followers of Pythagoras by Grotius.

They have also been called Chaldean magicians, Judaizing Christians, Essenes, Ebionites, Cabbalists, Gnostics, or varying combinations of all these (see Jacquier, Histoire, I, 316; Cornely, Introduction, III, 514).

The main outlines of their errors are, however, stated with sufficient clearness in the Epistle, which contains a two fold refutation of them: first, by a direct statement of the true doctrine on Christ, by which the very foundations of their erroneous teaching are shown to be baseless; and secondly, by a direct polemic in which is laid bare the hollowness of what they put forth under the specious name of “philosophy”.

Here, philosophy in general is not condemned, but only the philosophy of those false teachers (Hort, Jud. Chr., 118).

This was not “according to Christ”, but according to the “tradition of men”, and was in keeping only with the very alphabet of worldly speculation (kata ta stoicheia tou kosmou — see Galatians 4:3).

Josephus and Philo apply the word “philosophy” to Jewish teaching, and there can be no doubt that it was applied so in Coloss., ii; some of its details are given in 16-23:

(1) The false teachers wished to introduce the observance of Sabbaths, new moons, and other such days.
(2) They forbade the eating and drinking and even the very tasting and touching of certain things.
(3) Under the false pretence of humility they inculcated the worship (threskeia) of angels, whom they regarded as equal or superior to Christ. The best modern commentators, Catholic and non-Catholic agree with St. Jerome that all these errors were of Jewish origin.

The Essenes held the most exaggerated ideas on Sabbath observance and external purism, and they appear to have employed the names of the angels for magical purposes (Bel. Jud. II, vii, 2-13, Lightfoot, Col. and Dissertations).

Many scholars are of opinion that the “elements of this world” (stoicheia tou kosmou) mean elemental spirits; as, at that time, many Jews held that all material things had special angels. In the Book of Henoch and the Book of Jubilees we read of angels of the stars, seasons months, days of the year, heat, cold, frost, hail, winds, clouds etc.

Abbott (Eph. and Coloss., p. 248) says that “the term properly used of the elements ruled by these spirits might readily be applied to the spirits themselves, especially as there was no other convenient term”.

At any rate angels play an important part in most of early apocryphal books of the Jews, e.g. in the two books just mentioned, the Book of the Secrets of Henoch, the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, etc.

It may be noted in passing, that the words of the Epistle against the superstitious worship of angels cannot be taken as condemning the Catholic invocation of angels. Dr. T.K. Abbott, a candid non-Catholic scholar, has a very pertinent passage which bears on this point (Eph. and Coloss. p. 268):

“Zonaras . . . says there was an ancient heresy of some who said that we should not call on Christ for help or access to God, but on the angels. . . . This latter view, however, would place Christ high above the angels, and therefore cannot have been that of Colossians, who required to be taught the superiority of Christ.”

The objection sometimes brought from a passage of Theodoret on the Council of Laodicea, is clearly and completely refuted by Estius (Comm. in Coloss., II, 18).

Another difficulty may be mentioned in connection with this portion of the Epistle.

The statement that the vain philosophy was in accordance with “the tradition of men” is not any disparagement of Apostolic traditions, of which St. Paul himself speaks as follows:

“Therefore brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word or by our Epistle” (2 Thessalonians 2:14).

“Now I praise you, brethren that in all things you are mindful of me: and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you” (1 Corinthians 11:2. — See also 2 Thessalonians 3:6; 1 Corinthians 7:17; 11:23; 14:33; 2 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 1:8; Colossians 2:6, 7; 2 Timothy 1:13, 14; 2:2; 3:14; 2 John 1:12; 3 John 13).

Finally, the very last verse, dealing with the errors (ii, 23) is considered one of the most difficult passages in the whole of the Scriptures.

“Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in superstition and humility, and not sparing the body; not in any honour to the filling of the flesh.”

The last words of this verse have given rise to a multitude of the most conflicting interpretations. They have been taken as a condemnation of bodily mortification, and as an exhortation to it.

Modern commentators devote much space to an enumeration of the many opinions and to an exhaustive study of these words without any satisfactory result.

There can be little doubt that the opinion of Hort, Haupt, and Peake (Exp. Greek Test., 535) is the right one, viz. that the correct reading of this verse became irrevocably lost, in transcription, in very early times."
 
See also:

newadvent.org/bible/col002.htm

“■Touch not, etc… The meaning is, that Christians should not subject themselves, either to the ordinances of the old law, forbidding touching or tasting things unclean; or to the superstitious invention of heretics, imposing such restraints, under pretence of wisdom, humility, or mortification. (Challoner)”
 
One thing you might be confusing is carnal pleasure and divine pleasure. Both do incorporate the body/ies, but only one circumstance is divine:

Carnal/Secular pleasure (masturbation, prostitution, homosexuality, adultery) is evil because it does not glorify God in any shape or form-- merely the flesh.

divine pleasure (purely marital sex) is good because it DOES glorify God through joy and procreation-- and such is its purpose.

All are pleasurable in largely the same physical sense, but nothing except marital sex is emotionally, physically, and spiritually rewarding. God is extremely picky about our sexual diet because he wants us to receive it to the fullest and most powerful extent.
 
McatholicN said:
So is this saying the opposite of what I thought?

This chapter is confusing me.
Click to expand...
I think so. Paul is rejecting things like the statements in v. 21.

Elsewhere he speaks eloquently of disciplining his flesh to strengthen his spiritual life, but also to eating and drinking whatever is put before him. Read Hebrews 12 and 13, and Romans 12-14.
 
McatholicN said:
I found this chapter to be very confusing. It seems to be denouncing all pleasure whatsoever.

1
For I want you to know how great a struggle I am having for you and for those in Laodicea 1 and all who have not seen me face to face,
2
that their hearts may be encouraged as they are brought together in love, to have all the richness of fully assured understanding, for the knowledge of the mystery of God, Christ,
3
in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4
2 I say this so that no one may deceive you by specious arguments.
5
For even if I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing as I observe your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
6
So, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him,
7
rooted in him and built upon him and established in the faith as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8
See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world 3 and not according to Christ.
9
For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity 4 bodily,
10
and you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power.
11
In him 5 you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ.
12
You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
13
And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions;
14
6 obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross;
15
despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it. 7
16
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8
17
These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.
18
Let no one disqualify you, delighting in self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, 9 inflated without reason by his fleshly mind,
19
and not holding closely to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and bonds, achieves the growth that comes from God.
20
**If you died with Christ to the elemental powers of the world, why do you submit to regulations as if you were still living in the world? **21
**“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!” **
22
**These are all things destined to perish with use; they accord with human precepts and teachings. **23
While they have a semblance of wisdom in rigor of devotion and self-abasement (and) severity to the body, they are of no value against gratification of the flesh.

I know that the Church teaches moderation, but this seems to be saying do away with the world altogether.
Click to expand...
See the D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary on Colossians 2:

haydock1859.tripod.com/id213.html
 
McatholicN said:
So is this saying the opposite of what I thought?

This chapter is confusing me.
Click to expand...
I think maybe it is saying the opposite of what you thought.

I don’t think it is saying, "“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!” but rather is saying that others are going to try to tell us those things, trying to force us to follow laws and rules and regulations … those are the things from which Jesus set us free!

Consider what Jesus did for us in verse14: obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross;

and 16: Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.

That is how I read this; I hope I explained it so it makes sense :cool:
 
Hello McatholicN,

Barbkw is right. This chapter is about not being deceived by false teachers and following the Church. Colossians 3 is a continuation with the moral part. It’s about how to live the Christian life and gives a great explanation of mortification. I would use the Haydock Commentary. It helps. See below:

haydock1859.tripod.com/id213.html
 
When Paul says Do not handle. . . taste. . . touch. . . you must realize that he is making a sarcastic strike at the Jewish agitators who believed physical contact with corpses, lepers, and unclean foods was an act of ritual defilement. The purity codes have been set aside, and it would be a worse act of defilement to readopt the very practices that Christ died to nullify.

Read Mk 7:14-23 and Lk 11:37-44.

As far as human precepts and doctrines, Paul is alluding to the Greek version of Is 29:13 when Isaiah railed against the leaders of Jerusalem for pretentious worship. Jesus hurled the same oracle against his Parisees in Mt 15:7-9.
 
I think it’s pointing at the reality that often the way of Christ and the way of the world are different.
The Bible in a Verse

But now once at the conclusion of the ages Jesus has
appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Hebrews 9: 26b
 
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