How to convince a communist friend of distribuism

[ialsop]

I am convinced that distributism is the best system. HOWEVER, my friend is a communist. We are bound by common hatred of capitalism, but when it comes to theories of G.K. Chesterton and Karl Marx we are divided. He thinks North Korea is a free country that has just been demonized. That maybe true to an extent but he obsesses over it.
I just dont know how o convince him that communism is not the alternative to capitalism.
My personal opinion is that communism is capitalism on steroids. Capitalism is when powerful ruling classes clash for power over us. Communism is when one of those ruling groups wins over and achieves power.
But how do I convince him of that? How do I express Catholic social teaching to somebody who is not catholic? And he will not be catholic for awhile i think, because we are both 14 and his family is not catholic by any means. We often have deep philosophical, social, economic, political and even paranormal and sometimes religious discussions, if that gives you any idea of who your dealing with. not the typical 14 year olds…
THANKS!
Isaac

 

[Timothysis]

My personal opinion is that communism is capitalism on steroids. Capitalism is when powerful ruling classes clash for power over us. Communism is when one of those ruling groups wins over and achieves power.

Capitalism is an economic system while communism is a political system. You are mixing apples and oranges.

I understand that you are only 14 years old but I cannot understand why you would “hate” capitalism. Until you go out and work a job, pay bills and earn your daily bread, you will never know what it is like.

 

[ialsop]

Capitalism is an economic system while communism is a political system. You are mixing apples and oranges.

I understand that you are only 14 years old but I cannot understand why you would “hate” capitalism. Until you go out and work a job, pay bills and earn your daily bread, you will never know what it is like.

Capitalism and communism are opposing economic systems. And both corrupt. Communism corrupts through big totalitarian governments, and capitalism corrupts through immoral and unjust huge corporations that have so much more power over us tan anybody else. Consider-how much of your purchases go towards big, almost oligarchical corporations. You see, it is nearly impossible to live in this culture and not be dictated by products, advertisements, ect.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I think your Commie friend would LOVE distributism,

Distributism is regularly flaunted as a “third way” between capitalism and socialism, but it is actually just a quasi-socialist ideology.

Remember…first socialism then communism.

In order to arrive at the goal of creating a distributist society, government would have to take the private property (the means of production) from certain individuals and redistribute it to others. Land and capital from certain individuals would have to be confiscated and redistributed to other individuals. Currently, there is very little land that government could find that is not owned by some person. Government would have to make land more spread out in its distribution, it would have to take it from those who have it and divide it up among the masses. In principle, there is no difference between socialism and distributism. In the final analysis, both of them advocate the confiscation and redistribution of certain individuals‟ private property. Americans would not stand for that.

 

[ialsop]

I think your Commie friend would LOVE distributism,

Distributism is regularly flaunted as a “third way” between capitalism and socialism, but it is actually just a quasi-socialist ideology.

Remember…first socialism then communism.

In order to arrive at the goal of creating a distributist society, government would have to take the private property (the means of production) from certain individuals and redistribute it to others. Land and capital from certain individuals would have to be confiscated and redistributed to other individuals. Currently, there is very little land that government could find that is not owned by some person. Government would have to make land more spread out in its distribution, it would have to take it from those who have it and divide it up among the masses. In principle, there is no difference between socialism and distributism. In the final analysis, both of them advocate the confiscation and redistribution of certain individuals‟ private property. Americans would not stand for that.

All that would happen in socialism and distributism. BUT the fundamental difference is that in socialism, the GOVERNMENT does it, as you said. In distributism, FAMILIES and NEIGHBORHOODS do it. So you have good things happen, but on SMALL scale, and thus no totalarian USSR-style empires.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

All that would happen in socialism and distributism. BUT the fundamental difference is that in socialism, the GOVERNMENT does it, as you said. In distributism, FAMILIES and NEIGHBORHOODS do it. So you have good things happen, but on SMALL scale, and thus no totalarian USSR-style empires.

Who decides whose property is divided up and “distributed” to others?
What happens if one neighbor out produces another neighbor?
How would distributism meet the demands served by Exxon?

 

[PJH_74]

I’m not going to get to far into this one, but I think it’s impressive that a 14 year old even cares about this kind of stuff.

I’ll just say this, every theory of government and economics has it’s issues. Communism requires altruistic saints to work. Pure Capitalism can quickly become a Monopoly game where all but a few win and so on. No one lives (or I’d propose want to live for long) in a pure anything unless you are the one who manages to accumulate to power via the weakness of the system in question. Thankfully we have human compassion and Jesus as a guide to get us through.

 

[ialsop]

Who decides whose property is divided up and “distributed” to others?
What happens if one neighbor out produces another neighbor?
How would distributism meet the demands served by Exxon?

People who get together in a guild or a synod of families and build an oil drilling site for themselves. And in a distributist society, oil would not be so necessary.

f a neighbor out produces his neighbor, so what? That happens today too.

 

[ialsop]

**I’m not going to get to far into this one, but I think it’s impressive that a 14 year old even cares about this kind of stuff. **

I’ll just say this, every theory of government and economics has it’s issues. Communism requires altruistic saints to work. Pure Capitalism can quickly become a Monopoly game where all but a few win and so on. No one lives (or I’d propose want to live for long) in a pure anything unless you are the one who manages to accumulate to power via the weakness of the system in question. Thankfully we have human compassion and Jesus as a guide to get us through./QUOTE]

Bold: Most peers fund us quite strange for it. And most adults disregard anything we have said, even if I have researched and thought a lot about it, simply for our youth.

EXACTLY> And did you know distributisim is made from Papal social teaching, and based on the Catholic Faith and the social reign of Jesus Christ?

 

[Jerurussia]

The topic is “radical materialism” and both laissez-faire capitalism and communism are condemned by the Church as radical materialism is man living by bread alone and the ruthless sacrifice of personhood to this belief. Communist China’s capitalism is radical materialism plus radical materialism. So boycott products from China and make your own stuff, not unlike our forefathers and foremothers who boycotted English stuff and wore homespun instead of English factory-made fabrics, and drank coffee instead of English-imported tea. Ditto Ghandi, who made salt and wore India-style homespun instead of English imports. Ready; steady; go.

So as precocious BYT’s, what’s the hold-up? Or is “hold-up” too sensitive an issue when linked with distributism, which is suggestive of glorified robbery? In short, where’s the production of goods and/or services to replace those from your most-hated-system that you would then experiment with and not have to resort to empty rhetoric with which to be convincing? JUNIOR ACHIEVEMENT or just set up a lemonade stand… Then log the process: raw product; value added labor; marketing; barter or cash exchange; “distributist” tithing to God’s service; and distributist networking…Carry on. Check back with us when you’ve got something interesting to report and much success to you.

 

[ialsop]

You people know NOTHING of distributism, You think it is like socialism. IT IS NOT!!!
It is families being self sufficient. That is it

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I am convinced that distributism is the best system. HOWEVER, my friend is a communist. We are bound by common hatred of capitalism, but when it comes to theories of G.K. Chesterton and Karl Marx we are divided. He thinks North Korea is a free country that has just been demonized. That maybe true to an extent but he obsesses over it.
I just dont know how o convince him that communism is not the alternative to capitalism.
My personal opinion is that communism is capitalism on steroids. Capitalism is when powerful ruling classes clash for power over us. Communism is when one of those ruling groups wins over and achieves power.
But how do I convince him of that? How do I express Catholic social teaching to somebody who is not catholic? And he will not be catholic for awhile i think, because we are both 14 and his family is not catholic by any means. We often have deep philosophical, social, economic, political and even paranormal and sometimes religious discussions, if that gives you any idea of who your dealing with. not the typical 14 year olds…
THANKS!
Isaac

Explain that distributism and cooperatives are tools that can be utilized to raise the class consciousness of the proletariat while giving them the means to overthrow the bourgeoisie.

I think your Commie friend would LOVE distributism,

Distributism is regularly flaunted as a “third way” between capitalism and socialism, but it is actually just a quasi-socialist ideology.

Remember…first socialism then communism.

In order to arrive at the goal of creating a distributist society, government would have to take the private property (the means of production) from certain individuals and redistribute it to others. Land and capital from certain individuals would have to be confiscated and redistributed to other individuals. Currently, there is very little land that government could find that is not owned by some person. Government would have to make land more spread out in its distribution, it would have to take it from those who have it and divide it up among the masses. In principle, there is no difference between socialism and distributism. In the final analysis, both of them advocate the confiscation and redistribution of certain individuals‟ private property. Americans would not stand for that.

Actually cooperatives do quite well without any government assistance.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

People who get together in a guild or a synod of families and build an oil drilling site for themselves. And in a distributist society, oil would not be so necessary.

f a neighbor out produces his neighbor, so what? That happens today too.

This is the sad truth about why distributism fails.

Distributism worked fine in the middle ages if a benevolent monarch allowed it to operate.

The truth is that today, oil, and other commodities simply cannot be produced by various “families” in quantities to fill the market demand.

The whole concept of distributism is equality. When one neighbor out produces his neighbor…they are not equal. One now has more than the other. Soon one neighbor will be poor while the other is rich. Since it is human nature to want the best for one self and one’s family there is nothing wrong with producing all you can. But that is a big problem for distributism.

The only solution is for a “commissar” to order one neighbor not to produce more than his other neighbors or divide up his means of production. ( sort of like communism)

In a Capitalist system which is undeniably superior to any other economic/social system it would be simple. The poor man could go to work for the more productive neighbor. With the extra help the productive neighbor could become more productive while providing the poor man with the means of comfortably supporting himself and his family. A win win situation.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Actually cooperatives do quite well without any government assistance.

Really? Where?

If “quite well” means less than the average income…then I would have to agree.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Really? Where?

If “quite well” means less than the average income…then I would have to agree.

Emilia-Romagna is in fact doing better than average in Italy across the board.

 

[ialsop]

Really? Where?

If “quite well” means less than the average income…then I would have to agree.

Wealth cannot be measured by cash (name removed by moderator)ut, but by production, not to sell, but producing things to consume. Thus getting along just fine but appearing to not be from a capitalist point of view.

 

[PolarGuy]

Communism is the most oppressive and evil form of government, and economics, in the history of the world. It has been responsible for more deaths; more misery; and more human suffering than any other, including nazi or any other form. Why? Many reasons, not the least of which is its basic failure to acknowledge the rights and freedoms on each individual human life.

All truly great world leaders of the last 75 years - including John Paul II, Ronald Reagan, and Winston Churchill - would surely agree (all 3 were vehement anti communists).

Those big evil corporations? They employ aka feed millions of people; and make the products that make life easier for those blessed enough to live in capability nations.

Almost without fail, the history of the last 75 years can be summed up this way: communist nations want to keep their people in; the people want to escape and come to capitalist countries.

 

[ialsop]

Communism is the most oppressive and evil form of government, and economics, in the history of the world. It has been responsible for more deaths; more misery; and more human suffering than any other, including nazi or any other form. Why? Many reasons, not the least of which is its basic failure to acknowledge the rights and freedoms on each individual human life.

All truly great world leaders of the last 75 years - including John Paul II, Ronald Reagan, and Winston Churchill - would surely agree (all 3 were vehement anti communists).

Those big evil corporations? They employ aka feed millions of people; and make the products that make life easier for those blessed enough to live in capability nations.

Almost without fail, the history of the last 75 years can be summed up this way: communist nations want to keep their people in; the people want to escape and come to capitalist countries.

Just look at China. Corporations there cause the issues, not the government. And yes, I AM NOT A COMMUNIST I GET IT!!! DISTRIBUTISM IS NOT COMMUNISM IS IS SELF RELIANCE!!! IT IS WHAT THE NATIVE AMERICANS DID!!!

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Emilia-Romagna is in fact doing better than average in Italy across the board.

Yes, thanks to Ferrari, Maserati, Ducati, and a huge ceramics industry and a growing tourist industry.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Wealth cannot be measured by cash (name removed by moderator)ut, but by production, not to sell, but producing things to consume. Thus getting along just fine but appearing to not be from a capitalist point of view.

I am trying to understand…

Wealth is measured by production of products that are not sold…but consumed.???

That sounds like the old family farm that was self sufficient. Nothing wrong with that…until you needed a new tractor or Johnny, the oldest son, wants to go to college.